Starting to work with metal?

[Chris152]

get what you have glued on then figure out where it balances (just behind the GUARD is typical on a shorter bladed clip point), you might need to trim the length down a bit, a back heavy knife is a bit dangerous as it want's to fail bum down.

Sounds good - tbh, the back looks too thick/ heavy now we've taken that lower bump off the front, just before the brass thingy.
And no worries novocaine, the knife's for use when we're together, camping fishing and all that. and prepping potatoes, obviously...

But - what about a finish for the oak?! What's generally best for knife handles - oil, wax, I'm assuming 'unnatural' finishes are no good/ uncomfortable?

 

[AES]

As said before Chris, personally I know nothing whatever about knives. But I think "the boy" deserves a pat on the back. Just as you say, he's made "something" and while the experts may well find some areas which could use improvement (which is normal for any beginner at anything), the fact is he's made something entirely usable, all "with his own hands" - just as you say, a LOT better than staring at smart phones all day! Well done that (young) man - and well done to you too for encouraging and supporting him. =D> I wonder how many of his class mates could do so well?

About the finish on the handle, no idea, sorry.

 

[novocaine]

Im a big fan of beeswax. Which is a new skill for him to make too.

What hes made there is a damn sight nicer than what i did to a bowie. Ill take a piccy later so he gets to feel good about it. Lol

 

[novocaine]

Here you go, something to help him realise just what a nice job he's done. I really really needed to get a handle on it, didn't have enough oak (yep I used oak too) so it's a pair of scales with a beech centre over a short partial tang just like yours. I removed the brass thingy because I didn't like it.
I'm not overly keen on it, it does what I need (it's my garden knife) but I find the blade of a bowie to heavy/thick for most camping purposes so take a Whitby drop point instead.

20180727_062736 by David Rees, on Flickr

 

[Chris152]

Im a big fan of beeswax. Which is a new skill for him to make too.

What hes made there is a damn sight nicer than what i did to a bowie. Ill take a piccy later so he gets to feel good about it. Lol

Ha, message passed on! I've never made a beeswax polish but remember many years ago using a solid block to put a finish on a piece of whittling when bored on holiday - I thought then it made a nice finish. Going to google beeswax polish...

 

[novocaine]

Beeswax is pretty easy to make, a chunk of wax from ebay (hobbycraft sell it too or look for a local beekeeper like I did), melt it in a pan then 1 to 1 with white spirit in the pan, stir it a bit, then let cool a little before pouring off. as your doing this with the young shaver do it over a banmarie. put it in a jar and put an put the bit of rag you are going to us to wipe it on to stuff on top. I make about 50grams at a time and it lasts me a good few months (25g of wax is about a quarter of the blocks I get).

you can adjust the recipe between batches till you get somewhere round how you like it.

a quick google shows up the following if you can't get it local (it's good to support local if you can)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01AT6JPTG/ ... 8753996314

if you

 

[Chris152]

It's been a while since I posted in this thread - the boy's still loving working with metal in school, and seems to have built an all-metal desk lamp from scratch since we finished that knife handle (we did make up our own beeswax polish as per advice, but I think we made it too thin, didn't really add much to the wood and then he started using it, so finish of the handle slipped down the list of priorities). I'll post a pic of the lamp as soon as he remembers to take one after half term.

Anyway, my garage is now pretty empty as I've moved my wood stuff elsewhere and he's on about getting a metal lathe in there. I know this is an incredibly vague question, but what's a good lathe for him/ us to start on? Something simple and safe (apparently the ones in school have a couple of guards that have to be in place before the lathe will work - is that standard?). I've only looked at the Axminster site (seemed pretty £££ to me, but I guess that's what metal lathes are?) so have little idea, and only this morning discovered the principle of how a metal lathe works by watching a video on youtube. So no idea, really - he clearly knows more than me.

Do modern/ new lathes add much safety or ease over older ones? Where should I start looking? Money's an issue, in that I don't want to spend more than I have to - but at the same time I don't want something we'll have to do much (/any) work to get going properly.

Any thoughts very much appreciated.
Chris

 

[Lazurus]

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/

Have a look at the above forum, everything from mig, tig, plasma lathes, metal forming materials to jokes and stuff. A really helpful and friendly forum

 

[Trevanion]

Turning is not a cheap hobby, in metal or wood! :lol:

I would personally say you need to be looking at something like an Old Myford or Boxford lathe, anything bigger and heavier is a hell of a headache to move and will more than likely be 3-phase (Assuming you only have a single phase supply at home) anything smaller is just a toy really. So long as the boy has got his head screwed on properly when he's using the lathe there isn't much to go wrong, make sure work is secure in the machine, keep hands away from the chuck... etc. If guarding is a concern they can probably be had

I think you could easily spend about £1000 on a good secondhand lathe in single phase such as a Myford Super 7, I wouldn't even bother looking at the newer Axminster (or any other) ones as they are not quality made like the old stuff was, to reach the same quality you would have to spend tens of thousands. Then there's tooling to be bought if your machine doesn't come with any and which would set you back some more, plus then he would need proper measuring gear like vernier calipers and micrometers for accurate work.

It's worth encouraging the boy, I wouldn't be a joiner today if I hadn't had the encouragement and support from my parents when I showed an interest in it.

 

[sunnybob]

For a 15 year old boy to learn on, and to be as cheap and portable as possible, this is all you need
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hobbymat-Lat ... :rk:4f:0
It even has screw cut forward and reverse traverse.

No special electrics required, and as and when you want to upgrade you can sell it for what you paid for it.

I had one untill last year, only sold it because I needed space for more woodworking machinery.

 

[Rorschach]

Buy secondhand and you will nearly always get your money back.

A Myford would be lovely and will hold/increase it's value if you take care of it.

 

[Chris152]

Ok, that's really helpful fellas - I've been looking on ebay etc and not had a clue what I'm looking at, and now have a better idea. I'll keep my eyes open for a used one and see what comes up near me.

Tbh I don't even know what he'd want to make on a metal lathe and after pressing him last night, I'm not so sure he does (he did name some small items, but not sure how long that'd keep him going) - he just seems to like the process, which I definitely want to encourage. (His granddad was a machinist and worked for BSA for many years, maybe it runs in the blood...)

Is a metal lathe generally an end in itself, or is it just one link in the process of making in metal? I got a wood lathe a year ago and love the fact that once you have it, extraction and tools, you can do so much without buying more gear. Or is it the start of a slippery slope that leads to more and more equipment?! Welders seem cheap and cheerful by comparison and I have lots of ideas of things I (oh, and he) could try with one of those.

 

[Harbo]

I started off with a S/H Unimat which I’ve still got.

Amazing what you can make on such a tiny lathe and a great tool to learn on

Warco lathes are good and come in all sorts of sizes.

Rod

 

[sunnybob]

after a lathe, comes a milling machine (theres one attached in the picture above). Then a welding set (dont bother with arc, its so old fashioned) Then a decent large pillar drill, then a surface grinder, then a hot forge, and then... and then... #-o #-o :roll:

 

[Chris152]

That's my worry Bob - "I've turned a nut and bolt, now what do I build the rest of the car/ bike/ boat with?"

I think one of the small and relatively cheap lathes linked to above might be a good place to start - used with a resale value, if it becomes restrictive and needs upgrading. But there's no rush, GCSEs are looming and he needs to get his head into some books.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts - I did do some searching around the net but find metal a bit of a mystery. It's a bit hard, heavy and sharp, isn't it?

 

[sunnybob]

I've come from the exact opposite direction :shock:
Hot forge bending mild steel pipe as a 15 year old apprentice, working with metal and machines all my life, and building my own custom motorcycles as a hobby.
Only started playing with wood when I retired 4 years ago .
But the secret of life is to never stop learning. 8) 8)

 

[Chris152]

But the secret of life is to never stop learning.

Couldn't agree more - I think it's one of the most important things to remember as we get older.

Out of interest, would a Myford Super Seven (or similar) hold its value and sell on again easily in future? (I'm assuming the former, but wonder if they sit around for years in the for sale pages.) Also, I can see they're pretty complex things but could a complete newbie check one over and be confident it's probably ok?

 

[Trevanion]

Out of interest, would a Myford Super Seven (or similar) hold its value and sell on again easily in future?

If anything they don't stop going up in value, they seem to go up in price every year. Hobbyists and the old chaps in small sheds love them.

Also, I can see they're pretty complex things but could a complete newbie check one over and be confident it's probably ok?

They're complex to a beginner but they also aren't complex as far as Lathes go, it's all nuts and bolts holding it together at the end of the day. Geoffrey Crocker on youtube did a very good series on restoring one a couple of years back and bringing it up to like new condition, worth a watch just to see how these things work and it will give you some pointers on what to look for when you get to buying one.

[youtube]DtKutRzSf0U[/youtube]

 

[Chris152]

That's brilliant Trevanion - thanks so much. Looks like we've got some viewing to do!

 

[Rorschach]

A Super 7 will certainly hold it's value and possibly increase in value if taken care of.

They are pricey and an investment, but if you keep in mind that you won't lose money in the long term it's really not that bad. The main bonus is that spares and extras are easily available (though still pricey) and there is a lot of good info out there as well.

Capable little machines, I make my living on one I bought for £1000, could likely sell it for at least as much now. I have about £1500 in extras and tools, I could probably get about £500-1000 for those sold separately so very little loss. In the 10 years I have owned it I have probably made £150k worth of products on it, so it's certainly paid for itself.