Starting to work with metal?

[AES]

As said before, I know nothing about knives, but for such a job as "sticking" a piece of wood to a piece of metal I've often found that the "old, original" Araldite (the stuff in 2 tubes that takes 24 hours+ to really harden, NOT the "Rapid" which hardens "softer") is VERY good for such jobs. And it's more easily available - and cheaper! - than West, which although excellent, IS expensive.

HTH

Edit for a P.S. As always though, ABSOLUTE cleanliness and grease-free is the key.

 

[Rorschach]

You don't need West Systems, araldyte or similar will work fine. I have been recently using Lidl epoxy and it's lovely stuff, slow drying (overnight for full cure) and dries really nice and hard but not brittle.

 

[Sideways]

It's good to see anyone starting off down a path that can develop craft skills, perseverance, attention to detail, and even fine art.
Do take a look at this site. A super talented craftsman, now retired. I hope that his website remains on line for a while as inspiration to others...

Wieland der Schmied

http://www.wieland-der-schmied.de/en/

 

[heimlaga]

In my oppinion iron and steel are the best metal to start with as it's cheap and useful for many purposes.

Do you have somewhere in the yard where he can have sparks flying without any problem?

I was 14 or 15 when I first started to try some blackmithing at home.
Hovever the tools i could improvice wasn't good enough and I had no money for proper tools so I got frustrated and quit. However I always bought cheap secondhand blackmith's tools when I could find them (they are very expensive and hard to find in Finland compared to the UK) and at age 32 I had a proper set of the most important tools and got back into blacksmithing.
If you can find a cheap secondhand anvil and a cheap portable forge of some sort and a few secondhand tongs I rekon blacksmithing would be an ideal start for a boy of his age.

Welding and fabrication might be another route to go.
At age 15 I rekon that he is mature enough to weld and use an angle grinder. A secondhand DC stick welder of good quality doesn't cost much and nether does a big and a small angle grinder and a vice.
I got into welding at age 22 or thereabout but if I had started earlier it had been easier. Several of my friends started at age 15 or 16.

Whatever route you together decide on make sure that he learns to work in a safe way right from the beginning. A cotton overall and a face shield and ear muffs and heavy leather welder's gloves and a welder's leather apron are very important. Synthetic overalls are flammable and consequently dangerous.

 

[Chris152]

Araldite ordered! The Schmied site is great - he needs to spend a little time designing the handle so we'll be looking through it carefully. And for sure, we won't be doing any of this stuff without full-on H&S measures!

We'll update soon, I hope...

Thanks, C

 

[sunnybob]

a mantra for blade working. repeat constantly;
KEEP YOUR FINGERS AWAY FROM THE BLADE,
AND YOU WILL NEVER NEED FIRST AID.

Always been mildly interested in knives, had a green river at age 15, and a few are always laying around, but never actually made my own.

However, I have combined the two interests now, 8)
http://www.pbase.com/john_cooper/image/166993024

 

[Chris152]

Seem to be struggling with the tang! We got one handle block on dry fit, but I noticed the blade and handle weren't in alignment properly. So I made a taller fence for the drill press and we did another, with the hole perfectly aligned. Then I realised that, as we're tapping/ hitting the handle block onto the tang, the tang bends. Two questions:

1. Is this a weak tang or would that seem pretty normal? Is full tang stronger (thinking about the next one)?

2. How tight should the fit be? At the moment it's very tight (we used a 4mm drill bit and the tang is just less than that).

Thanks

C

 

[Rorschach]

Full tang is stronger yes, but in reality breaking a tang is rare and only happens if you are abusing the knife.

Stick tangs are soft so they can be drilled for a retaining pin or for long stick tangs, peened over at the end of the block in tradition scandi style.

Don't worry about getting a super tight fit, the epoxy will fill the gaps, you just want to avoid a massive hole as it takes loads of epoxy to fill it properly.

 

[Chris152]

Full tang is stronger yes, but in reality breaking a tang is rare and only happens if you are abusing the knife.

Stick tangs are soft so they can be drilled for a retaining pin or for long stick tangs, peened over at the end of the block in tradition scandi style.

Don't worry about getting a super tight fit, the epoxy will fill the gaps, you just want to avoid a massive hole as it takes loads of epoxy to fill it properly.

Thanks Rorschach - really helpful.

In my efforts to marginally enlarge the hole with a Lidl chisel, I snapped it in half (it got stuck and I tried to wobble it out). We'll do another handle and this time I'll use a larger drill bit.
c

 

[--Tom--]

If you take a jigsaw blade and glue it into handle before grinding the back to taper down towards the tip you get an effective and cheap broach for adjusting the slot.

There is an easier way than drilling small holes though that I posted on the knife forums about 8 years ago. I’ll try and dig it out.

 

[Chris152]

Well, he's got this far

I think the handle's a bit long for the blade but he's happy with it like that. I rough cut the shape on a bandsaw and he shaped it with a rasp and then a sanding drum attachment for the drill press, then just by hand with higher grit papers.

The wood's oak - any suggestions what finish he should use? It'd be nice to keep the rays visible but to darken the handle a little. We tried clear, light brown and dark brown paste wax, sanding sealer, and boiled linseed oil on oak scraps. The only one he really liked was light brown paste wax, but is that ok to use? It says on the tin all sorts about not getting on your hands?!
Also, while sanding he's scratched the brass thing - how can he polish that out?

Many thanks

Chris

 

[sunnybob]

brass thing..... thats a cracker that is. =D> =D>
Its a guard. Although its a little small in relation to the handle curve.
The sole reason for a guard is to stop your hand sliding down the blade when stabbing and thus cutting your own fingers off. The handle is further out than the guard so the hand could slip straight past the guard.

The best way to polish brass is with wire wool in one direction only, then solvol autosol. Be careful not to get it on the oak, it will darken. Use masking tape.

A handle should fit the hand. A handle thats too small is very dangerous to the weilder. If you want symmetry, make the blade bigger.
a nice knife, something to keep and be proud of.

 

[Rorschach]

That's a great start!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_no ... +mccreight

Is a good book if you can find it at a reasonable price. McCreight is a brilliant all round metalworker and silversmith.

 

[Chris152]

brass thing..... thats a cracker that is. =D> =D>
Its a guard. Although its a little small in relation to the handle curve.
The sole reason for a guard is to stop your hand sliding down the blade when stabbing and thus cutting your own fingers off. The handle is further out than the guard so the hand could slip straight past the guard.

The best way to polish brass is with wire wool in one direction only, then solvol autosol. Be careful not to get it on the oak, it will darken. Use masking tape.

A handle should fit the hand. A handle thats too small is very dangerous to the weilder. If you want symmetry, make the blade bigger.
a nice knife, something to keep and be proud of.

Oh dear, had no idea I was encouraging him to make something to lacerate his fingers! Here's mark II

Hopefully he won't be doing any stabbing but best get these things right...
The handle fits his hand well, so all good there.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=custom+knifemaking+tim+mccreight

Is a good book if you can find it at a reasonable price. McCreight is a brilliant all round metalworker and silversmith.

That's not so expensive if he's still wanting to make more after this one.
Have to say, it's great to see him in the garage making instead of loafing around looking at his phone...

Thanks all,
c

 

[novocaine]

only posting this to annoy Bob.
it's not a guard, it's a bolster, I'll let you have quillon if you really must. a sword has a guard, it's the bit that goes across your knuckles. (genuinely joking here, call it what ever you want, I rather like brass thing)

anyways, nice looking bit of work there, it's a bowie "ish" blade, so a shorter handle tends to be favored. get what you have glued on then figure out where it balances (just behind the GUARD is typical on a shorter bladed clip point), you might need to trim the length down a bit, a back heavy knife is a bit dangerous as it want's to fail bum down. tape a bit of something along the blade edge and mask of the blade when you start working it with it all together.
the GUARD will most likely be laquered, so be careful with the wire wool, you might find yourself having to remove it before it polishes up.

a partial tang is fairly common on this style of knife, it's a bit of a pain to work with but at least it's soft.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

According to McCreight, it's a guard. A bolster is a reinforcement flush with the handle.

Sorry about the poor picture.

 

[novocaine]

except this is flush with the handle on the back side of the blade, so it's a bolster with a quillon.

now how do you sharpen it?

 

[sunnybob]

potayto potahto, tomayto tomahto, US english, UK english.
aint gettin into this bun fight :roll: :roll: =D>

Whatever you want to call it, it has to stop the fingers sliding into the blade edge. 8)

 

[novocaine]

Bowie's a fighting knife, it's there to stop other knifes sliding in to your hand too.

note to chris, don't let the little shaver go fighting with a knife.

now to make some chips with that potato.

EDIT: also, sorry for being a troll.