Stairs - apron & balusters & rail WIP

[EdK]

Hi - I made a flight last year out of chunky ash and have the plasterers coming this week.

I suddenly realised that I need to finish off the apron and hand rail above it.

I've been planing up some 27mm thick ash (bit thick but the whole flight is chunky and I had it around) and butt joining it with biscuits to make up the width (two planks of about 125mm).

I had some questions:

1 - I was going to fix the apron to the joists first.
It's an enclosed stairs with a wall on both sides, I was going to fix the apron across the short end and then just run it along the long side into the top of the stairs below the top newel. Is it ok to have a butt join at the corner or would it be more normal to mitre it in ?

2 - Once the apron is in I was planning on fitting a nosing board over the top if it running around the top of the stair well. As there is the smallest of returns (no flight balusters) at the top newel I am guessing this will be quite wide. Should I run the hand rail out of the side of the top newel or in line with the stringer ?

3 - I have a newel at the top of the flight and was planning a half newel in the wall diagonally opposite it. I have made another newel post for the corner but a friend advised not to put it in and just curve the hand rail at the corner. Is this correct or could I add a corner newel ?

I'll add some pictures once I find my ftp details....

Are there any good diagrams pics of apron details ?
I've looked in about 3 books in the library and they all go into great detail on the carriage/flight but not much else...

THanks
Ed

 

[EdK]

Hopefully the images make it a bit clearer ?!

What I really need to know is what you put in before the plasterers come.

Perhaps I can ignore it until they've been and then dremel out some space and re-skim around the apron/ half newel....

At any rate I'd be very grateful for any pointers from people who have done this before.

I'll be gluing up the longer apron run a bit later.

Cheers
Ed

 

[EdK]

Found a useful image :

Glued up the apron last night and it looks ok - just going to flatten it now. A friend who is a joiner popped round to pick up his biscuit joiner that I borrowed and asked me how I was going to flatten it without a belt sander....

Will take some pics as I go along.

We're not English over here (Guernsey) but my plasterers are, they've knocked off til MONDAY for football related stuff so looks like I might get it all in by then !

 

[EdK]

Right well did a bit of planing and glueing and screwing at the weekend :

After gluing the two boards.

Bit of flattening...

Using the cat's tail approach to smoothing - highly effective.

Ripping to the right width. Gave the saw a bit of a touch up before I used it (sharpened a few months ago from scratch) and worked a treat.

Got there in the end.

Fitting the side apron. What you can't see is that the joist ran off (old house) so I had to take a slice off it at the end. Took a while...

I cut a 10mm x 12.5mm rebate in teh apron bottom edge so that the plasterboard sits in the rebate. There is a small gap so that the plaster skim will squeeze in and seal everything up. Haven't plugged it yet.

I cut the end short so that the shorter apron piece will slot in with a rebate. No idea if this is correct but felt easier than trying to cut a mitre. Am a newbie when it comes to wood work !

Seemed to work alright. Cut the rebate with a router and then trimmed it with the Veritas side rebate plane - worked well at giving me a tight fit.

Left a slight lip for the plasterers to finish to - about 3mm but the plasterboard rises a bit so not perfect although the apron is dead level...
Guess I will have to put a thin strip of ash to cover the join.

Plugs cut and trimmed - slight sand with some 240 grade - then two coats of diamond varnish (ronseal I think)

The next bit I'm wondering about is the nosing piece and baserail. I know that I need a return from the main newel out at 90 degrees then along the length of the top of the stair well but I'm not sure how much to come out.

A single spindle ? or just the width of the baserail mitred at 45 degrees (the base rail is 70mm I think).

It will run in the picture from the main newel in line with the white cable to the brush etc

Any advice ?[/img]

 

[xy mosian]

EdK,
I'm no expert on these things but I can't let you talk to yourself for much longer. You seem to be managing reasonably well though, chatting to yourself, keep it up .

The base rail on the landing? Obviously things to think about are reduced access along the landing, but you've thought about that. The only other thing is "How is it going to look/work with whatever flooring you intend to use. From my viewpoint I think a base rail the same dimension as the spindles would look skinny, give it some width.

Just as a thought that corner in the handrail is going to be roughly at hip height. Do you think an angled corner, say 45 degrees, would work? Assuming a curved corner is too far fetched.

xy

 

[RogerS]

That looks nice.

Apologies if it's Grandma eggs etc but you really are going to cover every bit and I mean every bit of ash...twice ..before the plasterers come. It's coarse grained and you'll never get the plaster out of it or the stains.

 

[EdK]

xy & Roger many thanks for turning this into a proper forum post rather than a blog

The baserail from the main newel dictates everything else. I've placed it next to the main newel here :

I would mean a 45 deg return into the main newel.
It would then run as tight up against it to give as much corridor width as possible. Guess I'll work out the spindles later.

The landing nosing under it will be in line with the main flight stringer and overlap the apron just a little bit.

Probably from ex 32mm (which comes in at about 26mm once it's been through the timber mill butchery machines). I think that it will be about 150mm wide.

If I follow the lines round I get this :

Working from the centre line of the baserail to dictate the half newel centre line in the wall.

I'll pack out the newel by 10mm from the wall I think as they slap on about 12mm of hardwall and 3mm of skim.

Think I'm getting there

The landing nosing goes on next to cover the apron. I might make a slight (3mm) rebate to hide the apron join.

Then the half newel sits on top of that and the base rail can go in at a later date as it butts up to the half newel

Still no idea how to tie in a full newel in the corner ? Any hints ?
Or just not use it this time round and have the hand rail mitred round ?

Thanks for looking - don't be shy to post any comments - I feel like I am flailing a bit !
Ed

 

[RogerS]

One thought re plaster mess and that is if you can (although the construction might prevent it) wrap builders polythene round the stringers...for example where it touches the wall and leave it in situ after fixing. Then when Johnny Plasterer has finished, run a Stanley knife down the stringer/plaster junction.

You haven't got open risers as far as I can see. Hardboard (?) protection is good but plaster, plaster dust and water will go down the cracks between joins.

I really can't stress enough how far plaster travels.