Spot the oversight

[RogerS]

OK and thanks to all those who had go.

The timber is 107mm wide and on my first drawing I had dimensioned the rebate width. This dimension never got through to subsequent drawings especially the one sent to Whitehill. The cutters are 55mm high. Now factor in the fact that the RH cutter doesn’t start at the edge of the timber and you suddenly find that that cutter is actually spanning the whole rebate …plus a couple of mm that eats into the quirk left by the first cutter/pass !

I also got around the difference in profile height - and subsequent support issues after the second pass - by, I think, a very elegant solution. Make the timber wider which means leaving two shoulders at the edges to run against the fence.

You can see that here..as well as the 'damaged' quirk. Ignore the last few cm...

 

[Doug71]

Have been following this but still don't get it, the maths say it should work?

It looks like you moulded too high with the first cutter, looks bigger than a 13mm scotia type mould on the edge or is it just the photo, or am I missing something?

 

[deema]

I’m with Doug, neither cutter would span the entire rebate if they are 55mm cutters. Operator Billy Do?

 

[Trevanion]

That's what I thought it was but according to the maths, it should've worked fine. If your cutters are 55mm and that little lambs tongue moulding is 14mm that means your rebate section of the moulding knife would be 41mm. On your original plan, it's stated as a 44/45mm rebate. The only thing I can see that went wrong is that you went too high on your first pass when you allowed for your little unmoulded piece under the cutter, unless I've completely misinterpreted the problem.

 

[RogerS]

Oh rats

Not only did I cockup but cocked up the cockup and explanation. You guys are, of course, bang on the money. Just checked and measured and, yes, I cocked up with the positioning of the first moulding pass

I even cocked up the SketchUp drawing and set the width to be 104mm instead of 107mm.

So profuse apologies for misleading you all.

Must try harder 3/10

 

[ColeyS1]

That's half an hour of my life I'll never get back ! Lol

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[Trevanion]

We've all done it.

I spend over 4 hours the other day trying to get our SCM tenoner in work back working when it decided to not turn on one day, Spent ages swapping out fuses in the box and reading the troubleshooting manual, even tried twisting all the emergency switches just to make sure it wasn't that. After faffing around with it another while I for some reason decided to pull on one the emergency switch on the bed rather than twist it like all the others (like literally every switch on all the machines are twist release) and pop, the machine was back in operation.

Felt like a right clown Needless to say I wrote in permanent marker "PULL" on the switch.

 

[ColeyS1]

We've all done it.

I spend over 4 hours the other day trying to get our SCM tenoner in work back working when it decided to not turn on one day, Spent ages swapping out fuses in the box and reading the troubleshooting manual, even tried twisting all the emergency switches just to make sure it wasn't that. After faffing around with it another while I for some reason decided to pull on one the emergency switch on the bed rather than twist it like all the others (like literally every switch on all the machines are twist release) and pop, the machine was back in operation.

Felt like a right clown Needless to say I wrote in permanent marker "PULL" on the switch.

Tuther week the gas forklift that was always throwing a tantrum decided to have another. After about an hour of fiddling I thought I should check the gas bottle- it was empty ! Ha. Fired straight up after i changed the bottles over.

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[Sgian Dubh]

Oh rats
Not only did I self generated mistake but cocked up the self generated mistake and explanation. You guys are, of course, bang on the money … So profuse apologies for misleading you all. 3/10

Well, I had a quick look too, and couldn't see anything obviously wrong, but I am struggling a bit with something. I can see a cyma reversa, a cavetto, and a bead moulding, and there are rebates where some of these profiles meet other surfaces, e.g., where the arc of the bead ends, but I'm guessing what many seem to be referring to as 'the' rebate is the 44-45 mm wide groove or housing that spans between the mouldings at each edge.

I'm not even really sure if the term groove or housing is correct: it's wider than I'd normally associate with those two terms, although it sort of fits the nomenclature. Can anyone suggest a better name than groove or housing for this feature, because I'm pretty sure it doesn't really fit the definition of a rebate? Slainte.

 

[RogerS]

... Can anyone suggest a better name than groove or housing for this feature, because I'm pretty sure it doesn't really fit the definition of a rebate? Slainte.

Rogercockupabus ?

 

[Trevanion]

I'm not even really sure if the term groove or housing is correct: it's wider than I'd normally associate with those two terms, although it sort of fits the nomenclature. Can anyone suggest a better name than groove or housing for this feature, because I'm pretty sure it doesn't really fit the definition of a rebate? Slainte.

I'm not sure myself, I would just call it a rebate but I suppose it doesn't really fit into that category. But I also wouldn't call it a groove or a housing. Channel or Valley perhaps? I'm sure there's a proper term in some old book somewhere.

The topic of woodworking terms and what's proper and what isn't is quite confusing, I've worked for a few different people now and every one had a different word for everything. What one would call an Arris another would call a Sharp, One would say glazing bars another would say muntins, I think tear-out was the one most varied as I had one call it rag out, another called it end-graining, another called it spelching, and another called it Blew (Hair in Welsh).

 

[RogerS]

Not just woodworking. When we had the detailed survey done on our house, I was Googling like a good 'un as the surveyor used a lot of Scottish terms !

Ever heard of a dwang ?

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Ever heard of a dwang ?

Oh yes. Many years living in Edinburgh means I've heard it said, equalling noggin or nogging in English English, ha, ha.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Channel or Valley perhaps? I'm sure there's a proper term in some old book somewhere.

I guess it could be either of those, or maybe even recess - who knows, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[Jacob]

Haven't quite followed this so I don't know what the prob was. In my experience complicated mouldings like that would be made in three bits - one back board with a cove on the edge and two mouldings pinned on. Stuff would be made up for stock and then selected to be pinned together to make up a design. You'd never know under paint and you'd have to look hard to see it in bare wood.
Less wasteful of timber and in the end less trouble.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Cupping, anyone?

I have enough trouble with the cheap stuff in this house, some of which is seriously nasty, even though it's around 110 years old (and wasn't a cheap property at the time).

Your backing could even be MDF if you chose, which would be very stable.

 

[RogerS]

Haven't quite followed this so I don't know what the prob was. ....

So why bother to comment then other than to show off as a 'know-all' ?

 

[ColeyS1]

Haven't quite followed this so I don't know what the prob was. ....

So why bother to comment then other than to show off as a 'know-all' ?

That's seems harsh Roger. What Jacob describes is probably how a lot of people would have considered when making the architrave. Taking a massive chunk of timber out of that size piece of wood is going to cause the wood to curl to some degree.
I recently made a largish batch of 2 and 3 part architraves. I thought I'd kept some back incase they wanted more- can't find it now though- probably put it somewhere safe [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND TIGHTLY-CLOSED EYES]
Something like this but there was more moulds.

Tulip wood for the mouldy bit and mdf for the large flat......now where tf are those other pieces I kept ? Grrrr


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[RogerS]

I'd be interested to hear how you'd make my architrave up from bits. The best I can come up with is this

What I've not shown is that you'd probably have to mould the semi-circle on one end of a larger piece of wood, then rip back, plane smooth then stick and pin down onto the base piece. Ditto the top LH piece, remembering that all of them are only 14mm thick...just love trying to pass them through with a powerfeeder.

I fully accept your comment re curling/cupping and that IS a valid reason for making them up piecemeal. What it is NOT, IMO, is 'less trouble'.

 

[Jacob]

The original of Roger's architrave might have been cut in one pass with a big cutter (or stacked cutters) - which would save time but waste wood. But a lot of old mouldings turn out to be composed of smaller ones, so the oversight could arguably be doing the opposite: the attempt to mould a solid piece with several passes. Not that it would never be done but there are short cuts!
That's why it's best to have samples of the original - you can see how it was put together as well as being able to do a perfect copy. But if you haven't got a sample you have to do something along Roger's lines.