Spindle moulder

[JFC]

Thats not too bad if a job comes in to warrant it . Ahhhhh i see the slope has started :lol:

 

[Scrit]

Just to make it worse, you might fancy trying to collect the "set" of Bursgreen machines. Here's the 1947 advert I was talking about, the RS is in the bottom right corner:

BTW I have the MZC bandsaw myself......

Scrit

 

[andys wood shed]

Jason

Hope you don't mind me asking this question on your thread but;

What cutter is used to make tenons

normal block (with spur) and turn the wood over to machine each cheek or do you gang two cutters up with the correct spacings

Andy

 

[Scrit]

What cutter is used to make tenons?

Andy

For best depth it should be two tenoning discs with spacers like these which will permit you to cut a scribed tenon

Ideally they should be mounted as a fixed set on a top hat and clamped together as a set before mounting on the spindle, however as Felderman pointed out in another thread it takes a lot of power to spin-up a pair of such large discs, especially if they are steel, so a better approach on a smaller/single phase machine would appear to be use a spurred rebate block and undercut both cheeks, turning over between cuts - but unless your spindle allows the use of a flush-mounted block (i.e. the machine has a stub spindle available which does noy protrude above the block) your maximum tenon width is going to be about 45 to 50mm, even with a 125mm diameter rebate block. Tenoning discs are normally in the range 150 to 300mm diameter (giving a tenon cheek width of circa 50mm to 120mm respectively, on a cutting circle of 180/190mm to 320/340mm respectively)

Scrit

 

[JFC]

Andy ask as many questions as you like , it saves me having to ask :lol:

 

[andys wood shed]

Thanks Scrit
I understand about the two couters, hadn't considered the power implication though
In the picture you kindly poster of the two cutters, the upper one appears to have a stepped profile. whats this for?
Also if you don't mind how would you produce the two remaining shoulders

I have a project coming up and I will need to produce quite a number of tenons would you recommend this method as I have a spindle moulder with sliding carriage although i would have to buy the tenoning hood



Cheers

Andy

 

[Scrit]

In the picture you kindly poster of the two cutters, the upper one appears to have a stepped profile. whats this for?

It's to produce a counter or scribed profile as you might see in a frame and panel door (take a look at a cope and stick router cutter set and it may make more sense). In fact that block would be mounted to undercut the work (which would be the rails - top, bottom and middle), i.e. the block would sit low in the table and the work be passed over it.

Also if you don't mind how would you produce the two remaining shoulders

The profile on the rails would be cut using a conventional cutter block on the spindle moulder. The other (square) shoulder would be cut using a square cutter in a tenon disc

I have a project coming up and I will need to produce quite a number of tenons would you recommend this method as I have a spindle moulder with sliding carriage although I would have to buy the tenoning hood

I believe that Felderman has much more recent experience of this than I have (I use a single-end tenoner and a 7.5HP industrial spindle), although my past experience (on a Lurem combination woodworker) inclines me to say yes. My problem with that machine was that there was no stub/flush tenon available and the rings in the table only accommodated a 160mm cutter which in turn limited me to a 50mm tenon cheek length. You need to check this on your machine as it is the significant limiting factor. If possible I'd recommend clamping the work down onto a tenoning plate as this will be a generally safer approach and I'd also suggest that the carraige needs a backer board of hardwood or plywood mounted on it's face to reduce break-out. Be aware that if you are producing tenons inthis way your thicknessing needs to be spot on and even then minor adjustments might be necessary, especially if the timber is thicknessed one day and tenonen the next. On smaller machines (under 4HP) go for aluminium blocks as the machine will struggle to spin up and to brake a steel block

If you take a look at the tenoning hood in the Felder catalogue it should be relatively simple to build a plywood one for use on your machine - remember that the primary purpose of the guard is to prevent your hands going into the cutter, which is also why the work needds to be clamped down onto a tenoning plate rather than hand held - the reach of tenoning discs can potentially take you unawares.

Scrit

 

[andys wood shed]

Thanks Scrit
The Tenoning hood comes with the tenoning plate
You have given me a lot to think about so just to warn you I might be back tomorrow :wink:

Cheers

Andy

 

[BECKS]

Greetings All, If only I"d found this website earlier. I bought an old Wadkin Ber 2 solely to cut tenons for door making, mostly 4x2, 6x2, 9x2 stuff. I now realise machine (2hp) is not powerful enough for pairs of tenoning cutters. That only leaves the undercutting option. Problem with that is the threaded part of shaft is 60mm long. Is it feasible to cut this shaft down flush with the top of a recessed cutter block? I am happy enough to make a hood and sliding table once I get a plan, what do you think? BECKS :?:

 

[Scrit]

Hi Becks

You'll need to get the spindle shaft out from the machine to do this and have it turned off on a lathe and a new thread cut at the end to accommodate the nut or have the end drilled and tapped to take an SCM-style flush cutter locking ring - a sort of taper-edge disc with a flush set Allen screw in the middle - otherwise how will you hold the cutter on the shaft?. Your best bet is probably to get yourself a single Whitehill tenoning disc, 150 to 200mm in diameter x 20mm high (depending on what diameter you can actually drop below the surface of the table with the rings removed) and use it for undercutting rather than try messing around with a machine that way. Cheaper, too. Some later spindle moulders, particularly Continental types such as the SCM, Griggio, Casadei, etc, have removeable spindle top pieces to allow the use of special stub spindles. Unfortunately this is far from common on British-built machines, partly I feel because of the prevalance of single-end tenoners in trade joinery shops here in the UK since the 1920s and even earlier

Scrit

 

[BECKS]

Hi Scrit, Thanks for the info. The appeture on my table is only 165mm, so that rules out the single tenoning block. I see the Axminster Universal Block can be flush mounted if I had the threaded part (65mm) removed and a hole drilled down the shaft. Do you think this is a safe practice or should I cut my loses and buy a bigger machine? Many thanks BECKS

 

[Anonymous]

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[Scrit]

For anyone who has followed this thread and would like to see more about tenoning on the spindle, please see this thread as well