Speed Awareness Course

[Cobbs]

My friend and I said forty years ago (when he installed his panels) that all new homes should have solar panels and grey water systems by law.

I seem to remember there was some talk of that happening under the last Labour govt. but nothing ever came of it...

 

[Tom K]

Yes, if new cities are designed for it.

15 minute cities are much like the brave new world foisted on us in the 60’s and 70’s all the wonderful new developments, only problem is the population don’t want to live in it!

 

[paulrbarnard]

Then we'd better go down to 10 or 5 mph

Or you could just respect the more vulnerable people on the roads and put their lives ahead of your Maverick tendencies.

There is a whole section on it in the Highway Code about vulnerable road users.
As for 10mph: You are already required to slow down to 10 mph when passing horses. How many do that?

 

[paulrbarnard]

15 minute cities are much like the brave new world foisted on us in the 60’s and 70’s all the wonderful new developments, only problem is the population don’t want to live in it!

You might be surprised at how many of the younger generation do want to live in it. The ownership of cars in the younger generation is falling as is car ownership in cities in general.
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/pub...an-areas-as-young-people-shun-vehicles/208584

 

[Sideways]

Since the number of pedestrian fatalities by motor vehicle has been trending downwards year by year.
What could be the reason for pushing 20 mph limits?

Info from

https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...itain-pedestrian-factsheet-2021#Main Findings
Table 1: Number of reported pedestrian casualties by severity and traffic (pedestrian billion miles walked), GB: 2004 to 2021

Year	Killed	Serious	Slight	All	Traffic
2004	671	10,318	23,892	34,881	12.52
2005	671	9,760	22,850	33,281	12.28
2006	675	9,345	20,962	30,982	12.64
2007	646	9,082	20,463	30,191	11.99
2008	572	8,666	19,244	28,482	12.09
2009	500	8,021	18,366	26,887	12.56
2010	405	7,566	17,874	25,845	11.78
2011	453	7,860	17,885	26,198	12.13
2012	420	7,870	16,928	25,218	11.78
2013	398	7,190	16,445	24,033	12.17
2014	446	7,312	16,990	24,748	11.90
2015	408	7,050	16,603	24,061	12.16
2016	448	6,657	16,445	23,550	12.64
2017	470	6,636	16,699	23,805	13.22
2018	456	6,796	15,180	22,432	13.54
2019	470	6,528	14,772	21,770	13.27
2020	346	4,376	10,028	14,750	14.32
2021	361	5,032	11,261	16,654	13.76

The one issue I have with this is that when I was a kid, people walked in order to get to work, to get to school, etc. There were fewer cars and more people walked because they had to. In my neck of the woods that included walking country lanes, sometimes at night, always very aware of cars and walking so that you faced the oncoming traffic and were super wary of meeting cars on the inside of a bend.
I doubt that sort of road safety is even taught anymore.
If analysed, I bet that walking for necessity has decreased a lot and far more of those "pedestrian billion miles"s are people walking for pleasure and exercise, in parks etc and at far less hazard from traffic.

That saying, there are many more joggers with headphones in and a total lack of situational awareness all queuing up to win the Darwin Award as they cross sideroads without looking ...

 

[selectortone]

I have to say the thought of Jacob marching up and down with his "Vote Jezza" placard brough a smile to my face. Presumably not going to repeat it on behalf of Starmer, and I dont blame him.

For pity's sake, don't get him started on Starmer!

 

[Terry - Somerset]

15 minute cities are much like the brave new world foisted on us in the 60’s and 70’s all the wonderful new developments, only problem is the population don’t want to live in it!

We recently moved and the 15 minute concept was key to our choice. We now live in a small town with a "traditional" small high street (butcher, baker, newsagent, pubs, restaurants etc) + a large national supermarket all within 10 minutes walk. Some facilities are a little further - eg: doctor.

IMHO much of the development since the 1960s has been ill thought through - planners have got it wrong.

The concession to the 15 minute concept has been a small parade of generally low quality shops, a pub and community centre. Large developments are frequently mono-cultures on the edge of existing urban areas with jobs, schools, shopping etc requiring car ownership.

As a matter of simple observation, socially vibrant areas typically have an integrated mix of housing, apartments, small businesses, restaurants etc. This runs counter to established planning strategy in the UK which largely seeks to "zone" areas - residential, business, industry, shopping etc.

 

[Tom K]

You might be surprised at how many of the younger generation do want to live in it. The ownership of cars in the younger generation is falling as is car ownership in cities in general.
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/pub...an-areas-as-young-people-shun-vehicles/208584

Yes it tends to suit those people that don’t like cars,motorcycles,gardening,DIY, workshops,self sufficiency etc. So what kind of world will that give us? Like many of us I watched the urban planners destroy the world I knew and erect a concrete jungle, complete with walkways in the sky planned shops and facilities and everyone that could turned their backs on it and headed for the suburbs because it looks good on paper and it works for young professionals but only as long as they can run back to Mummy and Daddy for the hols or until they start family’s

 

[Jacob]

For pity's sake, don't get him started on Starmer!

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-keir-starmer-going-to-blow-it/

 

[RogerS]

That's an interesting link. If it's accurate that air source heat pumps, solar with battery, and proper insulation would only add £8,500 to a build price, but about £33,000 to retrofit, then I think it's inexcusable that builders aren't required by law to provide these things. I'm not saying the fact that building firms are major contributors to the Tories is the reason, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably not a photocopier.

Had a look at that article. That figure of £8500 doesn't bear any resemblance to costings elsewhere on the web. Might just get you an air source heat pump but none of the other stuff. In any case, current levels of insulation accprding to Building Regs are pretty damn good. Are we now suggesting that Building Conrol Officers are also given backhanders by the developers to turn a blind eye ?

 

[artie]

Or you could just respect the more vulnerable people on the roads and put their lives ahead of your Maverick tendencies. [

Yes absolutely, but you don't have to drive at walking pace to do that.

There is a whole section on it in the Highway Code about vulnerable road users.
As for 10mph: You are already required to slow down to 10 mph when passing horses. How many do that?

Not required, advised.

The highway code is not law.

 

[John Brown]

Had a look at that article. That figure of £8500 doesn't bear any resemblance to costings elsewhere on the web. Might just get you an air source heat pump but none of the other stuff. In any case, current levels of insulation accprding to Building Regs are pretty damn good. Are we now suggesting that Building Conrol Officers are also given backhanders by the developers to turn a blind eye ?

Hence my caveat "if it's accurate".
No, I'm not suggesting anything about building control officers. Please don't put your words into my mouth, especially when I've just returned from a dental hygienist appointment.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Yes absolutely, but you don't have to drive at walking pace to do that.

Not required, advised.

The highway code is not law.

And there in lies the problem. It’s not a law so it’s optional. How do you, sat in a metal box, decide what acceptable for the horse and rider?
This is why 20 limits are being introduced as people simply can not be trusted to consider the risk to others.

 

[artie]

And there in lies the problem. It’s not a law so it’s optional. How do you, sat in a metal box, decide what acceptable for the horse and rider?
This is why 20 limits are being introduced as people simply can not be trusted to consider the risk to others.

I don't think that's why the twenty mph limits are being introduced, otherwise it would have been done years ago when pedestrian injuries/fatalities were much higher.

I fully understand the different viewpoint of driver v pedestrian/rider and like in many aspects of life a line has to be drawn somewhere.
But the old chestnut "if it saves one life it's worth it" is just an emotional club to beat people round to "ones" way of thinking.

 

[Lons]

You shouldn't assume that this is always the case throughout the day. There are busy periods known as "rush hours" which can mean more pedestrians and cyclists, as well as more vehicle traffic. And even the odd straggler needs protecting from bad driving.

Consider public transport alternatives next time?

so what are you complaining about?

One would hope they are paid overtime and sanctioned if caught speeding

Dunno, something seems to be working, if you look at the figures @artie provided - massive fall in accident rates over a 19 year period. Whatever it is, we need more of it!

So so predictable

 

[Jacob]

I don't think that's why the twenty mph limits are being introduced,

Why do you think they are being introduced?

otherwise it would have been done years ago when pedestrian injuries/fatalities were much higher.

I fully understand the different viewpoint of driver v pedestrian/rider and like in many aspects of life a line has to be drawn somewhere.
But the old chestnut "if it saves one life it's worth it" is just an emotional club to beat people round to "ones" way of thinking.

What would you see as an acceptable number of deaths?

 

[Lons]

Have to say having tried both Im with Jacob. We like rather more off beat locations so a 4x4 towing a caravan is far preferable to getting hopelessly stuck in a damn great 2 wheel drive motor home. And not sure about your later comments, what is stressful about towing? Only awkward bit really is on the continent with a RHD, but applies equally in either case, you just have to be a bit more careful.

We're all different and nothing at all wrong with personal preference, ours is the motorhome. It's very common for owners to swap either way just as it is to buy either then decide the layout isn't suitable and swap to a different one, it's what keeps the dealers in business.

I had a large outfit, SUV and twin axle (Elddis Crusader Zephyr) and I had no issue towing but it's a different experience pulling a large heavy brick that's often at least 75% of the kerb weight of your car than it is sitting higher up driving a similar brick with an engine and towing something like a shopping basket by comparison.
I towed caravans for many years and was a senior manager for one of the largest manufacturers at the time for a few years so I have plenty of experience and know exactly how to tow, load and handle a caravan. If you're going to park up in a rough field somewhere then there's no doubt you're right, motorhomes get stuck but that's the drivers fault as it's about commonsense really. We prefer to hook up on a proper site, ready to relax in just a few minutes.

 

[paulrbarnard]

I don't think that's why the twenty mph limits are being introduced, otherwise it would have been done years ago when pedestrian injuries/fatalities were much higher.

I fully understand the different viewpoint of driver v pedestrian/rider and like in many aspects of life a line has to be drawn somewhere.
But the old chestnut "if it saves one life it's worth it" is just an emotional club to beat people round to "ones" way of thinking.

So how do you choose who is allowed to kill who? By your statement it is acceptable for an adult to kill a child or other vulnerable road user. Even one death is important and should be avoided. It is ridiculous to believe there is an acceptable number of deaths.

Safety is ABSOLUTELY why the 20mph limits are being introduced. Do you have evidence of another motive?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Our local county councillor told us at a meeting I attended that they were being introduced to help the council on its way to net zero.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Our local county councillor told us at a meeting I attended that they were being introduced to help the council on its way to net zero.

That’s a novel concept. Did the councillor have a green agenda to push?

I can’t find a single 20 limit introduction with justification based on environment. Every one I can find states safety.