Speed Awareness Course

[Jacob]

Isn’t the problem that legislation has to apply to the lowest common denominator? It’s normally a very small minority that sets the restrictions for the majority. IF people could be trusted to put others safety first there wouldn’t need to be any speed limits.

Smart thinking! And if people stopped committing crimes we wouldn't need policemen!
It also advises those who might have a prob assessing a safe speed.

 

[Lons]

Cornwall doesn't suffer too much from heavy traffic outside of holiday times and holiday areas, but if my wife leaves for work later than 8 am it takes her an hour and a half to do the eleven miles. Just to add to the joy they're building at least new 4500 houses between here and there.

It's no difference here though Phil, 7.30 is about the latest time to leave to have any chance of being in Newcastle for 9 ish any time of year though fractionally better in the school hols. Looking at the number of new builds in the area is astonishing and they're still selling as people are buying off plan, it won't last as cost of living bites even deeper.

 

[artie]

I remember as a kid of about 12 or 13 I was at a friends house. His dad's dodgy friend and son (about 12yrs) were there, and why he'd want to impress me I don't know, but I do recall vividly the conversation (DDF = Dad's dodgy friend, DDFS Dad's dodgy friend's son, Me = me!).

DDF "Guess how long it took us to get her?"
Me "From Basildon? I dunno, 20 minutes?"
DDF "No 5 minutes, didn't it son?"
DDFS "Yeah, I timed it. 5 minutes"
Me "But that's 15 miles"
DDF "Yeah, almost exactly"
Me "That's 3 miles a minute"
DDF "Yup"
Me "That's 180 miles an hour"
short pause, then
DDF "It don't work like that boy."

I've heard all those impossible stories. Nowadays, I just quietly reply, "That's nothing, I used to have a car that could do the half hour in twenty minutes"

 

[bilspe]

I was driving through a village last evening around 8pm. this thread popped into my head as I wondered when was the last time I saw a child on the street?

There's alot of 20mph zones around my area, I drive them every day, often several times a day and have done for years. Very rarely do you ever see pedestrians crossing the road. A nearby village was given a 20mph limit about 12 months ago, and they've installed a zebra crossing with traffic lights. I honestly dont think I've ever had to stop at that crossing to let people across (at any time of the day)

 

[artie]

Since the number of pedestrian fatalities by motor vehicle has been trending downwards year by year.
What could be the reason for pushing 20 mph limits?

Info from

https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...itain-pedestrian-factsheet-2021#Main Findings
Table 1: Number of reported pedestrian casualties by severity and traffic (pedestrian billion miles walked), GB: 2004 to 2021

Year	Killed	Serious	Slight	All	Traffic
2004	671	10,318	23,892	34,881	12.52
2005	671	9,760	22,850	33,281	12.28
2006	675	9,345	20,962	30,982	12.64
2007	646	9,082	20,463	30,191	11.99
2008	572	8,666	19,244	28,482	12.09
2009	500	8,021	18,366	26,887	12.56
2010	405	7,566	17,874	25,845	11.78
2011	453	7,860	17,885	26,198	12.13
2012	420	7,870	16,928	25,218	11.78
2013	398	7,190	16,445	24,033	12.17
2014	446	7,312	16,990	24,748	11.90
2015	408	7,050	16,603	24,061	12.16
2016	448	6,657	16,445	23,550	12.64
2017	470	6,636	16,699	23,805	13.22
2018	456	6,796	15,180	22,432	13.54
2019	470	6,528	14,772	21,770	13.27
2020	346	4,376	10,028	14,750	14.32
2021	361	5,032	11,261	16,654	13.76

 

[Jacob]

Since the number of pedestrian fatalities by motor vehicle has been trending downwards year by year.
What could be the reason for pushing 20 mph limits?

Because modern traffic control measures reduce accidents - as you can see from your chart. Is it not obvious?
The more the better.
Or do you think the accident figures are now too low and we could ease off and let them rise a bit?

Info from

https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...itain-pedestrian-factsheet-2021#Main Findings
Table 1: Number of reported pedestrian casualties by severity and traffic (pedestrian billion miles walked), GB: 2004 to 2021

Year	Killed	Serious	Slight	All	Traffic
2004	671	10,318	23,892	34,881	12.52
2005	671	9,760	22,850	33,281	12.28
2006	675	9,345	20,962	30,982	12.64
2007	646	9,082	20,463	30,191	11.99
2008	572	8,666	19,244	28,482	12.09
2009	500	8,021	18,366	26,887	12.56
2010	405	7,566	17,874	25,845	11.78
2011	453	7,860	17,885	26,198	12.13
2012	420	7,870	16,928	25,218	11.78
2013	398	7,190	16,445	24,033	12.17
2014	446	7,312	16,990	24,748	11.90
2015	408	7,050	16,603	24,061	12.16
2016	448	6,657	16,445	23,550	12.64
2017	470	6,636	16,699	23,805	13.22
2018	456	6,796	15,180	22,432	13.54
2019	470	6,528	14,772	21,770	13.27
2020	346	4,376	10,028	14,750	14.32
2021	361	5,032	11,261	16,654	13.76

 

[paulrbarnard]

Since the number of pedestrian fatalities by motor vehicle has been trending downwards year by year.
What could be the reason for pushing 20 mph limits?

Info from

https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...itain-pedestrian-factsheet-2021#Main Findings
Table 1: Number of reported pedestrian casualties by severity and traffic (pedestrian billion miles walked), GB: 2004 to 2021

Year	Killed	Serious	Slight	All	Traffic
2004	671	10,318	23,892	34,881	12.52
2005	671	9,760	22,850	33,281	12.28
2006	675	9,345	20,962	30,982	12.64
2007	646	9,082	20,463	30,191	11.99
2008	572	8,666	19,244	28,482	12.09
2009	500	8,021	18,366	26,887	12.56
2010	405	7,566	17,874	25,845	11.78
2011	453	7,860	17,885	26,198	12.13
2012	420	7,870	16,928	25,218	11.78
2013	398	7,190	16,445	24,033	12.17
2014	446	7,312	16,990	24,748	11.90
2015	408	7,050	16,603	24,061	12.16
2016	448	6,657	16,445	23,550	12.64
2017	470	6,636	16,699	23,805	13.22
2018	456	6,796	15,180	22,432	13.54
2019	470	6,528	14,772	21,770	13.27
2020	346	4,376	10,028	14,750	14.32
2021	361	5,032	11,261	16,654	13.76

Because even one is too many.

 

[artie]

Because even one is too many.

Then we'd better go down to 10 or 5 mph

 

[Jacob]

Tory policy to do nothing about housing or house prices.
It's wildly inflationary as we all know, but it benefits existing property owners in higher sales prices or rents charged.
Profits then go to buy more property and carry on pumping up prices.
It's also heavily subsidised by the tax payer via housing benefits and other minimal attempts to house the less well off, which creates a "perfect storm" of inflation. This redirects taxation back into the pockets of wealthy property owners.
It has also created a new huge class of landlords who own just one or two properties and live off the backs of their neighbours.
Crude capitalism woven into the fabric of society and difficult to disentangle. If you own even one empty property it is earning money by inflation, probably more than you could earn by working
It benefits the wealthy so tends to get ignored in all conversations about inflation, even though for half the population it is an ongoing ever present inflationary disaster, dominating their lives.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...h-tory-donations-since-2010-property-industry

 

[Jacob]

Then we'd better go down to 10 or 5 mph

So you do think the roads are now safe enough and further measures not necessary?

 

[Lons]

I needed to drive into the Scottish borders yesterday afternoon, 120 mile round trip which included 4 villages with virtually no one on the streets, only Coldstream was slightly busier and all 20mph, no chance of a collision with anyone let alone a child as there weren't any, by contrast Kelso was busy as always but most of the roads still 30mph so little logic.
Crawling along a road at 20 with no traffic or pedestrians is frustrating, I had plenty of time but not so the delivery drivers who travel that route. Previously it was 20mph with flashing lights outside schools at relevant times and was in my experience generally observed. Whatever they do won't stop the idiots who are going to speed no matter the consequences.

 

[Lons]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...h-tory-donations-since-2010-property-industry

Have you dusted off your electioneering paraphernalia yet ready to do a bit of canvassing? On second thoughts, you never stop.

 

[Jacob]

I needed to drive into the Scottish borders yesterday afternoon, 120 mile round trip which included 4 villages with virtually no one on the streets,

You shouldn't assume that this is always the case throughout the day. There are busy periods known as "rush hours" which can mean more pedestrians and cyclists, as well as more vehicle traffic. And even the odd straggler needs protecting from bad driving.

only Coldstream was slightly busier and all 20mph, no chance of a collision with anyone let alone a child as there weren't any, by contrast Kelso was busy as always but most of the roads still 30mph so little logic.
Crawling along a road at 20 with no traffic or pedestrians is frustrating,

Consider public transport alternatives next time?

I had plenty of time

so what are you complaining about?

but not so the delivery drivers who travel that route.

One would hope they are paid overtime and sanctioned if caught speeding

.... Whatever they do won't stop the idiots who are going to speed no matter the consequences.

Dunno, something seems to be working, if you look at the figures @artie provided - massive fall in accident rates over a 19 year period. Whatever it is, we need more of it!

 

[Fergie 307]

No different to owning a yacht, an expensive car or wearing fancy shoes and is something termed " status symbols" which they can boast about over expensive champagne dinners with there other colleagues. To them it is loose change but to us a small fortune and is one of the benefits of good accountants, offshore accounts and tax avoidance schemes. There is a property in a small lakeland village that must be worth at least 3/4 of a million and the owner who I believe lives in Oxfordshire only uses it for a few weeks a year but does apparently employ someone to look after the gardens and keep it clean, a complete waste of a resource.

I would say a very real difference. The car, yacht etc do no one else any harm generally. Buying a home specifically to then leave it empty for 50 weeks of the year does, in that it drives up prices, robs locals of the opportunity to live where they were brought up and so on. Very selfish and should be punitively taxed.

 

[Fergie 307]

Have you dusted off your electioneering paraphernalia yet ready to do a bit of canvassing? On second thoughts, you never stop.

I have to say the thought of Jacob marching up and down with his "Vote Jezza" placard brough a smile to my face. Presumably not going to repeat it on behalf of Starmer, and I dont blame him.

 

[Spectric]

Very selfish and should be punitively taxed.

This is the problem with people who only live to make money, it becomes a drug which drives all aspects of their lives at the expense of all others and enough is not in their vocabulary.

 

[artie]

Very selfish and should be punitively taxed.

Is stamp duty higher on a second home?

https://hoa.org.uk/advice/guides-for-homeowners/i-am-buying/stamp-duty-for-second-homes/

 

[Fergie 307]

I've had a big twin axle caravan towed by my SUV and there are advantages and disadvantages to both caravans and motorhomes. Clearly something you know little or nothing about so I'd suggest to make an attempt to experience both yourself before offering ill informed advice.

Have to say having tried both Im with Jacob. We like rather more off beat locations so a 4x4 towing a caravan is far preferable to getting hopelessly stuck in a damn great 2 wheel drive motor home. And not sure about your later comments, what is stressful about towing? Only awkward bit really is on the continent with a RHD, but applies equally in either case, you just have to be a bit more careful.

 

[John Brown]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...h-tory-donations-since-2010-property-industry

That's an interesting link. If it's accurate that air source heat pumps, solar with battery, and proper insulation would only add £8,500 to a build price, but about £33,000 to retrofit, then I think it's inexcusable that builders aren't required by law to provide these things. I'm not saying the fact that building firms are major contributors to the Tories is the reason, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably not a photocopier.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My friend and I said forty years ago (when he installed his panels) that all new homes should have solar panels and grey water systems by law.