Somebody stop me.... Imminent Festool purchase

[TRITON]

Just paroozing Ebay - I know, late in the evening its always the start of it...
This, that.. oh look a Kapex KS60

Should I, shouldn't I

I've an ancient dewalt DW700, a VVG blade in it- Trend industrial 80t, but it kicks so much dust everywhere and its not comfy in a safe way when using it. Feels scary sometimes and im used to big horrifyingly scary RAS's, but this is just old, and well you know... just feels old in use.

Now a shiny new Kapex

 

[Bingy man]

Just paroozing Ebay - I know, late in the evening its always the start of it...
This, that.. oh look a Kapex KS60

Should I, shouldn't I

I've an ancient dewalt DW700, a VVG blade in it- Trend industrial 80t, but it kicks so much dust everywhere and its not comfy in a safe way when using it. Feels scary sometimes and im used to big horrifyingly scary RAS's, but this is just old, and well you know... just feels old in use.

Now a shiny new Kapex

If nobody else is around to stop you - then go for it . You can always say you must have been sleep browsing and accidentally hit - buy it now . 1 little press and it’s all yours

 

[MikeK]

If the DW700 met your needs, then you will like the KS 60, if for nothing more than the dust collection. I replaced a DeWalt DWS780 with the Kapex 120 and there is no comparison to the dust collection. The only thing I miss on the DWS780 is the LED that creates a shadow line for the blade cutting lines. Festool offers a user-installed LED module for the KS 60 if the saw you buy doesn't already have it.

 

[TRITON]

1 little press and it’s all yours

Next day delivery too

If the DW700 met your needs, then you will like the KS 60, if for nothing more than the dust collection. I replaced a DeWalt DWS780 with the Kapex 120 and there is no comparison to the dust collection. The only thing I miss on the DWS780 is the LED that creates a shadow line for the blade cutting lines. Festool offers a user-installed LED module for the KS 60 if the saw you buy doesn't already have it.

It never did Mike, its as basic as basic gets and the cut isnt parallel. It sort of climbs across the cutting width, still right through but kind of deeper at the back so any attempt to jury rig for trenching was a no no. Trenching for dados etc was something all these saws should do, mine never did and i kept meaning to buy one where that was a function i could utilize.

Festool offers a user-installed LED module for the KS 60 if the saw you buy doesn't already have it.

TBH i dislike these laser lines, I feel with a bright light and placing the blade directly on the line you can get a more accurate cut. So for me its not really something i'd miss.
Yup, the 120 would be nice, but i cant stretch that far. I can sneak through the 600, above that im playing a dangerous game

 

[MikeK]

It never did Mike, its as basic as basic gets and the cut isnt parallel. It sort of climbs across the cutting width, still right through but kind of deeper at the back so any attempt to jury rig for trenching was a no no. Trenching for dados etc was something all these saws should do, mine never did and i kept meaning to buy one where that was a function i could utilize.

Based on this, the KS 60 will be a great improvement over the DW700.

TBH i dislike these laser lines, I feel with a bright light and placing the blade directly on the line you can get a more accurate cut. So for me its not really something i'd miss.
Yup, the 120 would be nice, but i cant stretch that far. I can sneak through the 600, above that im playing a dangerous game

I dislike the LASER lines as well. The LED module for the KS 60 produces a crisp shadow line that you will like. There is no guessing where the blade will cut since the shadow has only one dimension (length) and the kerf of the blade is very clear. Even though the dual LASER lines on the KS 120 are small, they have a width dimension as well as length, so there is still a possibility of splitting the cut line or missing it completely. I wish Festool made a LED module for the KS 120.

 

[Rozza]

Properly setup, the laser lines on the KS120 I find them incredibly convenient and very accurate.

 

[MikeK]

I think I would have been indifferent to the LASER lines on the KS 120 if I had never experienced the accuracy and unquestionable clarity of the shadow line on my DWS780. The LASERs on my KS 120 were a bit off from the factory, but were easy to adjust. They are now properly adjusted, but I still don't like them.

In my opinion, and based solely on my experience, the KS 120 LASER lines are good enough for carpentry but not for joinery. When I am cutting to a knife line, I have to estimate where on the fuzzy LASER edge the blade will contact the board. On the KS 120, I don't use the LASERs for precision cuts and prefer to bring the blade down and align the knife line to a tooth on the blade.

 

[Spectric]

There are better mitre saws out there unless you want the better dust extraction of the festool, the one thing mentioned about that festool is the handle is not right for some people, imagine having a bike where the handle bar grips are vertical. I like the Bosch saws, still using the older sliding one but that newer GCM12 is really good and needs less space behind it.

 

[MikeK]

The handle on my DWS780 was horizontal and designed for right hand use. The trigger was on the left side of the handle and positioned for the right index finger. It was cumbersome to use with my left hand if the offcut was on the left side of the saw. I don't recall any transition issues to the vertical handle of the KS 120, and it works the same for both hands.

But for the dust collection, I would have kept the DWS780 because it is a great saw. I originally wanted the Bosch GCM12 because of the compact size, but none of the vendors I knew of had any in stock.

 

[Spectric]

The Dewalt saws were very common on so many sites, I suppose they are not over expensive and deliver the required results. I do like the idea of a shadow line but not so easy on my bosch saw, the laser thing Bosch sells is not brilliant. I think the shadow line is good because it actually shows the edge of the blade and the line is not inferred.

 

[MikeK]

When I bought my DWS780, I didn't know a Kapex from a kipper. I think I paid about €950 for the saw and stand, and it was about €50 less expensive than the unavailable GCM12.

 

[Spectric]

It is amazing that you had supply issues for a Bosch saw considering you are in Germany, the home of Bosch. That GCM12 is a great saw, I know someone with one and they are very happy with its performance and replaced the laser with a shadow line. The main issue I have with my earlier Bosch is that it needs space to the rear for those slides and it is not so easy to fit a shadow line. I think someone was selling one on these forums recently, I was tempted but to far away to collect.

 

[Distinterior]

In my opinion, and based solely on my experience, the KS 120 LASER lines are good enough for carpentry but not for joinery. When I am cutting to a knife line, I have to estimate where on the fuzzy LASER edge the blade will contact the board. On the KS 120, I don't use the LASERs for precision cuts and prefer to bring the blade down and align the knife line to a tooth on the blade.

That's exactly the way I use my KS120. It's super accurate and the dust extraction is second to none.
For accurate repetitive cuts, the extension wings are also really useful

 

[deema]

I can fully understand the desire of a portable saw, however, a lot I see are built into a bench often with benches either side……something you often see promoted as an elegant solution on uTube. Now, if that’s what your going to do with it, as opposed to having it mobile every day, why would you buy it? Why not buy a Wadkin RAS which will be infinitely more accurate, have a greater depth and height of cut and will put only a minuscule dent in your pocket compared to Festool. It will also not loose any money when you come to sell it.

 

[Spectric]

I think you need space to incorporate a saw into a bench, space being a problem for many of us but given space then a radial arm saw would be the way to go, maybe then you have the ability to swap out the radial arm saw for a spindle making a great modular solution for a spacous workshop.

 

[Ollie78]

If you don't need the height of the 120 then it's a nice saw.

Ollie

 

[MikeK]

I can fully understand the desire of a portable saw, however, a lot I see are built into a bench often with benches either side……something you often see promoted as an elegant solution on uTube. Now, if that’s what your going to do with it, as opposed to having it mobile every day, why would you buy it? Why not buy a Wadkin RAS which will be infinitely more accurate, have a greater depth and height of cut and will put only a minuscule dent in your pocket compared to Festool. It will also not loose any money when you come to sell it.

Good points. When I started on my alchemist journey of transforming money into woodworking equipment, my shop was going to be in my garage. Portability and compactness was the primary consideration. Everything had to be on wheels to be moved to the side or corners when not used, or easily disassembled and stored on shelves, as I still wanted to put two cars in the garage.

When I made the decision that the garage, and some of the accumulated machines, would not work for me, I had to reconsider my choices as I built out the 25 square meter basement shop. By then, dust collection became the primary factor, followed closely by space and storage. However, at this time, I still didn't know about Festool because I was operating in a hobbyist vacuum and modifying my design as I learned about what was available.

There are no retailers like Axminster or Wood Workers Workshop in Germany. The closest hobbyist woodworking showroom I knew about (Dictum in Munich) didn't have any shop machines. I could not find a cabinet saw anywhere in Europe and the choices were portable contractor saws suitable for construction sites or sliders. Axminster would not ship machines to Germany, so I bought a slider from a local vendor.

While searching for solutions that would provide storage and a place for the DWS780, I found the mitersaw workstation build series by Jay Bates. I bought his plans and modified the components to fit my shop and known requirements. Five years later, I am very pleased with the workstation and don't think I would change anything today. I am confident that I do not have the space required for a Wadkin RAS.

 

[MikeK]

It is amazing that you had supply issues for a Bosch saw considering you are in Germany, the home of Bosch. That GCM12 is a great saw, I know someone with one and they are very happy with its performance and replaced the laser with a shadow line. The main issue I have with my earlier Bosch is that it needs space to the rear for those slides and it is not so easy to fit a shadow line. I think someone was selling one on these forums recently, I was tempted but to far away to collect.

I think it was just market timing. Now the big box stores are selling the blue Bosch professional tools along with the green consumer tools. Sometimes I see a GCM12 on display.

 

[niall Y]

Ah........ Lust. Mr Shakespeare expresses it so well in Sonnet 129
But if you want to,.......... just go for it!

 

[Doug71]

I love my Kapex 120, love the UG stand it's on and love the vertical handle but never use the fuzzy laser.

Really fancying the cordless KSC 60 but can't afford it or justify it at the moment.

I got a bit of a shock at the price of the UG stand for the KS 60, it's around £700 which is more than the actual saw