Solid Shed build,vapor barrier question

[TheTiddles]

Good maths? Strong understanding of physics? Able to apply those principles? Capable of reviewing arguments and making judgments based on them? If yes, you may be an engineer.

 

[Max Power]

.........Cavity which must be vented top and bottom.........

I'm content that cavities behind timber boarding need only be vented at the bottom.

Would it be ok to vent at the top rather than the bottom, less chance of mice getting in

 

[MikeG.]

No, because any condensate or wind-driven water ingress needs a direct way out. It can't be allowed to pool. The gap should be sealed with insect mesh at the bottom to allow air in, water out, and to prevent insects and vermin from getting in.

 

[Hornbeam]

This is why on larger buildings we always vent top and bottom. Firstly it allows air in and out. Second the opening at the bottom allows any condensate that may form a route out, Third warm air rises so if there is condensate in teh cavity as it heats up in the sun and evaporated the warm air rises in the cavity and exits at teh top also having 2 openings helps to drive ventilation

 

[Hornbeam]

We've 7 bikes, I think. That'd be some pretty impressive stairs! :lol:

Only 7. My daughter has that many on her own

Why the aggression ? 'Mine's bigger than yours' type of thing ?

No Aggression I just have bikes everywhere

 

[MikeG.]

This is why on larger buildings we always vent top and bottom. Firstly it allows air in and out. Second the opening at the bottom allows any condensate that may form a route out, Third warm air rises so if there is condensate in teh cavity as it heats up in the sun and evaporated the warm air rises in the cavity and exits at teh top also having 2 openings helps to drive ventilation

Absolutely. The one exception I make to that is when the rainscreen is rough timber boarding on a small building, where there is enough air leakage through it to make up for the lack of venting at the top (in my non-proven view).

 

[Hornbeam]

I saw that as gentle teasing/ humour, Roger. Cyclists are supposed to aspire to N+1 bikes, where N is the number you have now, so we tend to take the mickey out of people who don't quite have enough. Harmless fun, I thought.

That the way it was intended Mike. Funnily my daughter is Nicole and we often call her N
She has gone back to university today and taken a bike with her so we now have 1-N

 

[yuzi87]

Good maths? Strong understanding of physics? Able to apply those principles? Capable of reviewing arguments and making judgments based on them? If yes, you may be an engineer.

Well i just designed and built a house minus brickwork with no previous experience, i run 3 companys and i have been building computers for 17 years so i guess i must be good at something. :lol:

Having pieced together multiple comments on this thread i have come to the conclusion that double skin osb is certainly do-able based on the osb leaving a gap at top and bottom of each seperate frame section to allow air flow and warm air to escape and water pooling to escape.

I think i will probably just do one skin anyway due to the time involved and i think i have under ordered enough boards. #-o

I appreciate everyones time and knowledge given on the matter and i will continue to update with pictures.

One final question i still am unsure of though is do i actually need inner vapor barrier as one suggestion was that the osb is good enough barrier, based on the fact that its just a storage shed really

 

[MikeG.]

Jesus H........ :roll:

Anyone following along in years to come........just get out of this thread and go and look at one where the advice given and taken is correct. Following along here you will end up with a cock-up.

 

[Hornbeam]

One final question i still am unsure of though is do i actually need inner vapor barrier as one suggestion was that the osb is good enough barrier, based on the fact that its just a storage shed really[/quote]

No

 

[TheTiddles]

Good maths? Strong understanding of physics? Able to apply those principles? Capable of reviewing arguments and making judgments based on them? If yes, you may be an engineer.

Well i just designed and built a house minus brickwork with no previous experience, i run 3 companys and i have been building computers for 17 years so i guess i must be good at something. :lol:

Having pieced together multiple comments on this thread i have come to the conclusion that double skin osb is certainly do-able based on the osb leaving a gap at top and bottom of each seperate frame section to allow air flow and warm air to escape and water pooling to escape.

I think i will probably just do one skin anyway due to the time involved and i think i have under ordered enough boards. #-o

I appreciate everyones time and knowledge given on the matter and i will continue to update with pictures.

One final question i still am unsure of though is do i actually need inner vapor barrier as one suggestion was that the osb is good enough barrier, based on the fact that its just a storage shed really

Clearly you don’t need advice on a damp membrane then, do you!

 

[yuzi87]

Good maths? Strong understanding of physics? Able to apply those principles? Capable of reviewing arguments and making judgments based on them? If yes, you may be an engineer.

Well i just designed and built a house minus brickwork with no previous experience, i run 3 companys and i have been building computers for 17 years so i guess i must be good at something. :lol:

Having pieced together multiple comments on this thread i have come to the conclusion that double skin osb is certainly do-able based on the osb leaving a gap at top and bottom of each seperate frame section to allow air flow and warm air to escape and water pooling to escape.

I think i will probably just do one skin anyway due to the time involved and i think i have under ordered enough boards. #-o

I appreciate everyones time and knowledge given on the matter and i will continue to update with pictures.

One final question i still am unsure of though is do i actually need inner vapor barrier as one suggestion was that the osb is good enough barrier, based on the fact that its just a storage shed really

Clearly you don’t need advice on a damp membrane then, do you!

Are you just being obtuse for the **** of it?

 

[yuzi87]

Jesus H........ :roll:

Anyone following along in years to come........just get out of this thread and go and look at one where the advice given and taken is correct. Following along here you will end up with a cock-up.

What cock up is that? Following the same design that you specify but adding some external boarding that still leaves a gap in each frame section top and bottom, so basically changing nothing but providing extra security and strength.

What is the downside to that idea? I would love to hear it. So many people on here with a stick up their buttocks, the refusal to discuss or solve problems, absolute belittling of anyone who wants to try something new, and sly remarks made when questions are asked.

 

[yuzi87]

Clearly you don’t need advice on a damp membrane then, do you!

No i don't because im God and I know everything :roll: .....

What a ridiculous thing to say, i say im a security engineer yet you then think i should be a specialist in physics and moisture and try to belittle me like im an silly person which i then disprove and now you say i dont need help with the one thing i asked for help.

Trolls exist in shed building forums as well as social media platforms it seems

 

[Hornbeam]

I have generally found that people on this forum offer clear constructive advice. I think this is true for virtually everything written so far on this thread. However when given advice rather than take it you seem to question the advice and ask why your method wont work. There are plenty of ways of skinning a cat but my general advice is stick to what has been proven to work well and be aware that not following standard approaches can lead to a lot of potential problems (look at how much problems there were with rot/mould timber framed housing when the detailing wasnt right

 

[MikeG.]

Jesus H........ :roll:

Anyone following along in years to come........just get out of this thread and go and look at one where the advice given and taken is correct. Following along here you will end up with a cock-up.

What cock up is that? Following the same design that you specify but adding some external boarding that still leaves a gap in each frame section top and bottom, so basically changing nothing but providing extra security and strength.

What is the downside to that idea? I would love to hear it. So many people on here with a stick up their buttocks, the refusal to discuss or solve problems, absolute belittling of anyone who wants to try something new, and sly remarks made when questions are asked.

I told you very early on that I am not discussing it with you because of your insistence that you knew best and that some guy on Youtube backed you up. Crack on, I said. There have since been four pages of people explaining to you how vapour movement works within a wall. You've ignored everything. Or you haven't understood anything. One or the other. Your completely muddled approach to insulation shows this beautifully. You got the "Jesus H" for taking the venting arrangements for a void and applying them to an element stuffed full of insulation, then trying to turn it into some sort of agreement with what we've been saying. It's bizarre behaviour, before we even start on the "stick up backside" insults. Nobody here is trolling. You have been offered pages of advice by people who know what they are talking about, and you have learnt absolutely nothing at all. Your loss, as this is just about the only place on the English-speaking part of the internet where you can get quality advice on the construction of small outbuildings.

 

[yuzi87]

I told you very early on that I am not discussing it with you because of your insistence that you knew best and that some guy on Youtube backed you up. Crack on, I said. There have since been four pages of people explaining to you how vapour movement works within a wall. You've ignored everything. Or you haven't understood anything. One or the other. Your completely muddled approach to insulation shows this beautifully. You got the "Jesus H" for taking the venting arrangements for a void and applying them to an element stuffed full of insulation, then trying to turn it into some sort of agreement with what we've been saying. It's bizarre behaviour, before we even start on the "stick up backside" insults. Nobody here is trolling. You have been offered pages of advice by people who know what they are talking about, and you have learnt absolutely nothing at all. Your loss, as this is just about the only place on the English-speaking part of the internet where you can get quality advice on the construction of small outbuildings.

I have actually learnt a lot thanks, i just ask a lot of questions. The internet is full of companies and individuals building sheds and workshops and many of them are double skinned, now you guys on here say they are all wrong which is fine if thats the case but dont expect me to just take your word for it because my brain doesnt work that way and i also know you guys as much as the youtube guys, hence i ask a lot of questions and come up with a lot of ideas to come to a conclusion.

My conclusion is you have the ideal shed build all sussed out and a tried and tested method, this is how i will also build my shed minus the vapor barrier.
However there are always ways to adapt things to suit your needs and based on the sciences that have been explained here i can not see why my idea with osb across the outer frame with gaps top and bottom of each frame section would be of major detriment to a shed build.

All the hundreds of builds on youtube im sure are still standing or the companies would not exist still due to so many negative reviews, yet my idea is an improvement on the negative aspect of their builds by allowing drainage, air flow and warm air to escape.

Its a work around on my proposed build that takes into account what ive been told on here and rather than discuss the idea or add to it its just "you obviously dont listen" "nobody listen to this guy"

New inventions and technologys exist because people try new things and ask questions and think outside the box.

P.s i never once insisted i am right or said that a youtube guy backs me up

 

[MikeG.]

Keep on telling yourself that you are thinking outside the box. Keep on telling yourself that what you are proposing concords with what you've been told here. The reality is that you are making a fundamental mistake, and don't have enough knowledge or understanding to realise it.

 

[yuzi87]

Keep on telling yourself that you are thinking outside the box. Keep on telling yourself that what you are proposing concords with what you've been told here. The reality is that you are making a fundamental mistake, and don't have enough knowledge or understanding to realise it.

Then tell me how what i am suggesting will majorly affect your standard shed build

 

[Hornbeam]

Believe me new developments on cladding systems do not happen overnight. From my work which covers most aspects of large industrial building cladding, we have proven calculated and tested standard details. New details would go through a formal process of concept design, calculation, accelerated testing and possibly long term exposure testing on a test rig.
For a simple garden shed stick to the tried and tested approach