Solar panels: do they save money?

[MARK.B.]

I could be wrong but i think that the VAT on solar installations was only 5% , the 20% was only charged on items fitted after the main installation, So the price would only come down 5% and not 20%.

 

[Pedronicus]

I could be wrong but i think that the VAT on solar installations was only 5% , the 20% was only charged on items fitted after the main installation, So the price would only come down 5% and not 20%.

Correct. 5% on solar installs.

 

[Crazy Dave]

You've probably heard today that VAT on energy saving products - including solar panels - will be removed so an installation will (should) be 20% less from 1 April. That and rising electricity prices might change the equation.

I have thought carefully about pv panels on and off for some years but still not done it. I will think again now. A few things bother me - life of panels and the decline in efficiency over time being one, but the main worry was and perhaps still is the dodgy-ness of the industry. It seems a bit wild west, first there was rent a roof with no proper explanation of any risks on house sale, then there are guarantees and if they will be honoured, companies come and go *, cost and margin - all companies need to make a profit but I remember when FIT was cut suddenly the installation cost fell massively which suggests that margins were very high, cold calling from 'energy consultants' ** and so on. Unregulated or lightly regulated businesses shouldn't really be trusted with something of major long term importance. Who can you trust? I'm sure there are some good installers out there and many happy customers but I'll bet that there are a good many unhappy ones as well.

* A company set up with great fanfare on the edge of our village, rented barns/workshop/showroom etc from local farmer and offered everything 'green' from wood pellet boilers to pv installations. Someone I know had work done by them but they wouldn't come to sort out a problem. I had a dig around - they had disappeared. Companies house search, wound up but because it was a voluntary wind up no directors were disquaified. Search the directors on companies house and they had started and wound up companies before.

** A good reply to a cold call from an energy consultant is "so what are your qualifications?" Stops them in their tracks - "you say you are energy consulatants so I presume you must be qualified in some way otherwise anyone could set up and start phoning pepole" ... I just make the appointments .. "fine, but will the person you send be qualified..."

Have you considered DIY, I did and all worked out fine, you just need to watch the numbers Generated Vs Usage.

 

[RobinBHM]

Have you considered DIY, I did and all worked out fine, you just need to watch the numbers Generated Vs Usage.

I presume you need an electrician to connect up and certify?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

5% will get swallowed by other cost increases.

 

[Jameshow]

My panels are on the garage roof , Direct south facing
84FAF74E-6255-4395-9311-0EB692AF2478 by Allen Wells, on Flickr

Inverter inside the garage

52DF6E52-8620-4171-BB59-601FC70F7CAC by Allen Wells, on Flickr

And the battery

1E739F41-6B66-4EA1-882C-04452EA58544 by Allen Wells, on Flickr

All fitted in a day

How much did that setup cost??

 

[Crazy Dave]

I presume you need an electrician to connect up and certify?

Well...... That depends on whether you have the necessary understanding to do it yourself, who signs off when you plug the Toaster in? The inverter simply plugs in to a standard 3pin socket, of course the socket has RCD protection the inverter circuit handles the rest. It's not as simple as it sounds but as long as you have the necessary DC and AC isolator switches in place and you have the PV panels connected in a way that suits the inverter you're using you're good to go. But if you're not absolutely sure what you're doing don't do it because you could be handling voltage from the panels that has the potential to be Dangerous to life.

Edit: Jack Daniels has paid a visit, maybe my reply would be different it hadn't. Just saying

 

[Jameshow]

Don't do this as you could send current back down an isolated (from the mains) circuit and kill a network electrician....

Think I heard this correctly...
.

 

[Crazy Dave]

Don't do this as you could send current back down an isolated (from the mains) circuit and kill a network electrician....

Think I heard this correctly...
.

No you can't, the inverter has to sense mains before it will process the power from the panels, if the mains goes down the inverter will shut off until the mains is restored again. I can't speak for the cheap Chinese eBay/Amazon inverters but a MCS certified Growatt Grid tie inverter does exactly that.

This is exactly what I meant when I said don't do it unless you're sure what you are doing.

 

[RobinBHM]

Edit: Jack Daniels has paid a visit, maybe my reply would be different it hadn't. Just saying

 

[Dabop]

I have thought carefully about pv panels on and off for some years but still not done it. I will think again now. A few things bother me - life of panels and the decline in efficiency over time being one, but the main worry was and perhaps still is the dodgy-ness of the industry. It seems a bit wild west, first there was rent a roof with no proper explanation of any risks on house sale, then there are guarantees and if they will be honoured, companies come and go *, cost and margin

Unless you are a teenager or younger....
then the panel life is of absolutely no importance- there is a lot of - well what you find coming out of the south end of a male bovine facing north- about 'short panel lifespans'...
In reality- any panel made in the last quarter of a century that costs more than $2- the expected lifespan is up over half a century or more... I know the ones I used in the 1980's here in Australia are still being used at a neighbours place today...
Many confuse (some intentionally) the 'output guarantee' with the lifespan- note that even the 'elcheapo' panels have a 80% or better one at 25 years, the upmarket ones are 90% at 25 years...
Do you replace your car tyres when they use 10% of their tread depth???
No???
So why would you replace your solar panels???
To put it in perspective- my panels were brand new in 2018- each panel is rated at 250W... (at the specified light and temperature)
They have a 82.7% minimum 25 year guarantee- ie they will be producing 82.7% OR MORE in 25 years... (they were at the cheaper end of the market lol)
So in 2043, the will still be producing 206.75W- or more...
And with most having a 0.6% or lower per year drop in output... when (IF lol) I break 100 years old- mine will still be making 175w per panel (dropping the total output from 18kw down to 11kw...
PANIC TIME- at 100, I doubt I will be climbing on the roof to replace them...

Oh and the warantee- thats from the panel MANUFACTURER- not the installing company- so stick with the long term players...

 

[Blister]

How much did that setup cost??

£9500

 

[Sandyn]

Have you considered DIY, I did and all worked out fine, you just need to watch the numbers Generated Vs Usage.

Can you give us a bit of information on the equipment you chose. which panels and controller. Also expand a bit on numbers Generated Vs Usage

 

[Crazy Dave]

Can you give us a bit of information on the equipment you chose. which panels and controller. Also expand a bit on numbers Generated Vs Usage

The equipment I chosen suits the application which I intend to use it for, your situation will no doubt be different from mine.
It would be wrong of me to try and explain everything in a text format because 1) I'm not qualified to do that and 2) there is too higher risk of misunderstanding that could result in someone getting hurt and I don't want that on my conscience. Sorry.

The basics: Solar panels should be facing south (northern hemisphere) and depending on where you are tilted at an appropriate angle to maximize their potential.
The energy generation is in the form of a DC voltage which can be in the range 12volts for a parallel connected string to 100s of volts for a series connected string or even a series/parallel set up to match the inverter MPPT (maximum power point tracking).
A grid tie inverter is used to convert the DC power into AC so it can be added to the Grid or used in your home. With a pure sign wave inverter you could use the energy via a battery bank and that is a whole other topic.

Try YouTube if you just want to learn more about it.

 

[RobinBHM]

this is my reason for looking at solar

 

[Sandyn]

The equipment I chosen suits the application which I intend to use it for, your situation will no doubt be different from mine.
It would be wrong of me to try and explain everything in a text format because 1) I'm not qualified to do that and 2) there is too higher risk of misunderstanding that could result in someone getting hurt and I don't want that on my conscience. Sorry.

Thanks. I had a quick look. it all seems pretty straight forward. I haven't had any interest in it before, but just started thinking about doing my own installation. Which manufacturer did you use for your equipment? I don't think there is any risk telling me.

 

[Crazy Dave]

Thanks. I had a quick look. it all seems pretty straight forward. I haven't had any interest in it before, but just started thinking about doing my own installation. Which manufacturer did you use for your equipment? I don't think there is any risk telling me.

I went for a Growatt 1500tl-x inverter and 4 X 295W Smaller Size Perlight Black Plus Mono Percium Solar Panel - 54 Cell Smaller 1.5m high.

Check out Bimble Solar as they supplied most of my equipment.

 

[Sideways]

Do be aware that even if you go down the route of something like "plug in solar" a system in a box with low enough capacity that it can be added to an existing circuit in your house without the need to notify building control - you still need to submit a g98 application to your electricity company (your "DNO").

 

[lexfurther]

£9500

That sounds fair

 

[Jim Davis]

I've recently checked the solar panels 200 watt and I'm thinking about getting one. I'm going to use it mostly for my RV, it should make our trips more comfortable. Moreover, such panels are supposed to be effective in any challenging outdoor environment conditions. Who knows what can happen, with the panel, I would be more prepared for various situations.