Small or big tubes?

[woodbloke]

Following on from Tony's thread, I'll be setting up an extraction system later based around my Camvac 386 as the 'sucker'. I had originally intended to go for the 63mm option regarding tubing, but am wondering if a system with the bigger 100mm pipes and fittings would be more effective? There certainly seems to be a lot more fittings for the 100mm system as opposed to the 63mm.
Also...which is the better way to mount blast gates to prevent them from getting clogged, horizontally or vertically? - Rob

 

[cambournepete]

4" will move a lot more air (2.5x cross-sectional area), so I'd got for that and use a separate vacuum cleaner type for fine dust.

My gates are hroizontally mountedin vertical pipes.
No idea if this is best but the main pipe run (110mm soil pipe) is in the garage loft and too high to reach easily.

 

[PAC1]

If it is attached to a planer or thicknesser I would definitely go for 100mm pipework.

 

[Max Power]

Agree with Pac , anything smaller than 100mm would be useless for shavings

 

[woodbloke]

I should have been a bit clearer The p/t will run off a 100mm pipe vial a blast gate to the Camvac and the tablesaur will have it's own dedicated extractor. The system that I intend to set up will be to extract from a big bandsaw, disc sander and anything thing else that I can fit into that run of pipe work...maybe a bobbin sander or small lathe say. So would a 63mm system be sufficient to extract from a biggish bandsaw?... bearing in mind that I'll need to get a reducing adaptor (if needed) for the bandsaw - Rob

 

[jasonB]

For those machines I would have thought the 63mm will be OK, you will get a higher velocity so less chance of anything setteling out in the tubes.

Jason

 

[Mike.C]

I should have been a bit clearer The p/t will run off a 100mm pipe vial a blast gate to the Camvac and the tablesaur will have it's own dedicated extractor. The system that I intend to set up will be to extract from a big bandsaw, disc sander and anything thing else that I can fit into that run of pipe work...maybe a bobbin sander or small lathe say. So would a 63mm system be sufficient to extract from a biggish bandsaw?... bearing in mind that I'll need to get a reducing adaptor (if needed) for the bandsaw - Rob

Hi Rob, as I mentioned in my Jet and Axminster drum sander thread which I hoped you were going to answer, I too have the twin motored Camvac GV386 and one of the downside's of using it with a P/T is the amount of times you will finding yourself emptying it. This is because in reality it is a HPLV machine rather then a HVLP chip collector.

Cheers

Mike

 

[woodbloke]

I was having a natter with the Camvac rep at Yandles on Sat, who mentioned that one of these dustbin extenders fitted to a tin dustbin 'twixt the p/t and the Camvac would enable chippings to be collected and the finer dust to pass through to the 'sucker'

Anyone use one?..and how effective are they? - Rob

 

[Mike.C]

I was having a natter with the Camvac rep at Yandles on Sat, who mentioned that one of these dustbin extenders fitted to a tin dustbin 'twixt the p/t and the Camvac would enable chippings to be collected and the finer dust to pass through to the 'sucker'

Anyone use one?..and how effective are they? - Rob

Yes I can see that working a treat, and I will probably be using the tip (thanks ) on my own system :wink:
When you think of it it is basically the same idea behind Mike.G's devices.
Cheers

Mike

 

[woodbloke]

one of the downside's of using it with a P/T is the amount of times you will finding yourself emptying it.
Cheers

Mike

Agreed Mike, that is one of the downside's (possibly the only one) about the C386 but I knew that when I bought it. The dustbin extender is a way round the problem...if it's effective :wink: - Rob

 

[Mike.C]

one of the downside's of using it with a P/T is the amount of times you will finding yourself emptying it.
Cheers

Mike

Agreed Mike, that is one of the downside's (possibly the only one) about the C386 but I knew that when I bought it. The dustbin extender is a way round the problem...if it's effective :wink: - Rob

Well Rob, as long as there is a tight/good fit between the plastic lid and metal dust bin, I think it has got every chance of being very effective :wink:

Cheers

Mike

 

[Harbo]

Axminster's dustbin "extender" would not work with my Camvac 286W and the 63mm tubing could not cope with my P/T - especially the long Sycamore shavings!

It may work with the more powerful versions - I have not tried it with my Record DX5000 as the bin was taking up too much space? Also I think Axminster modified the inlet design?

Rod

 

[woodbloke]

Axminster's dustbin "extender" would not work with my Camvac 286W and the 63mm tubing could not cope with my P/T - especially the long Sycamore shavings!

It may work with the more powerful versions - I have not tried it with my Record DX5000 as the bin was taking up too much space? Also I think Axminster modified the inlet design?

Rod

Rod - the 286 is the single motor version though...I wonder if the 386 being the twin variant would do the job? I agree about the 63mm tubing and chippings, 100mm definitely needed for p/t extraction.

Mike - I think the seal between the bin and lid is pretty crucial...needs to be as tight as the proverbial :wink: to be effective - Rob

 

[Mike.C]

Axminster's dustbin "extender" would not work with my Camvac 286W and the 63mm tubing could not cope with my P/T - especially the long Sycamore shavings!

It may work with the more powerful versions - I have not tried it with my Record DX5000 as the bin was taking up too much space? Also I think Axminster modified the inlet design?

Rod

Rod - the 286 is the single motor version though...I wonder if the 386 being the twin variant would do the job? I agree about the 63mm tubing and chippings, 100mm definitely needed for p/t extraction.

Mike - I think the seal between the bin and lid is pretty crucial...needs to be as tight as the proverbial :wink: to be effective - Rob

Without a doubt Rob. On the Axminster link you gave me above, if you look under the description, they recommend using some self-adhesive foam draught excluder, which sounds ideal to me.

Cheers

Mike

 

[jasonB]

one of the downside's of using it with a P/T is the amount of times you will finding yourself emptying it. This is because in reality it is a HPLV machine rather then a HVLP chip collector

Yes I can see that working a treat, and I will probably be using the tip

The fact it needs emptying regularly is not because its a HPLV its because the container is small. You could add any number of dustbins but the machine will still suck a low volume of air at the same high pressure you will just have more containers to empty all be it at a lower frequency. Adding container space won't make it a high volume machine.

Jason

 

[cambournepete]

I've tried the dustbin extender idea (on an ADE1200), but found it wasn't very successful as there's no baffle to prevent the shavings being sucked out of the bin.

A larger version of the Garnham-box would be rather better I think.

 

[woodbloke]

I've tried the dustbin extender idea (on an ADE1200), but found it wasn't very successful as there's no baffle to prevent the shavings being sucked out of the bin.

A larger version of the Garnham-box would be rather better I think.

The AD1200 is the LPHV sort of sucker whereas the Camvac is a HPLV device which works on a different principle...so, does one of these dustbin adaptors work with a HPLV extractor? - Rob

 

[Mike.C]

one of the downside's of using it with a P/T is the amount of times you will finding yourself emptying it. This is because in reality it is a HPLV machine rather then a HVLP chip collector

Yes I can see that working a treat, and I will probably be using the tip

The fact it needs emptying regularly is not because its a HPLV its because the container is small. You could add any number of dustbins but the machine will still suck a low volume of air at the same high pressure you will just have more containers to empty all be it at a lower frequency. Adding container space won't make it a high volume machine.

Jason

Hi Jason,

No I know that adding a container will not make it a high volume machine.
My original point to Rob was that putting one of these Camvac's on a P/T (which are really built to extract finer dust) is a right pain because it fills up with shavings so quick, which as you say is because the 90 litre container is to small. But then when he told me about putting an inline dustbin, making the container to be filled much larger, I thought/think that it is a great idea because it means it does not have to be emptied so often.
I am far from being an expert in dust extraction, hence the reason I am still years later trying to find a decent system, but although Rob's idea is not changing a HPLV into a HVLP system, isn't using a much larger container sort of getting the best of both worlds, i.e. coping with fine dust, while at the same time acting as a chip extractor?

Or am I missing something?

Any suggestions and advice will be gratefully received.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Escudo]

I visited Camvac at lunchtime and chatted to Phillip the fella who represented the firm at Yandles last week.

Advice and conclusions as follows;

A single motor 63mm machine will easily handle dust from small machines, disc / bobbin sanders, bandsaw, small lathe, drill press etc over a reasonable run.

Having made the above comment, it seems a better option to buy the 100mm machine as this can easily be converted to handle 63mm hoses/ducting by fitting a plastic attachment to the outlet on the vacuum machine. This approach provides flexibility for the future.

The hose pipe fitted to the top of the machine deflects noise and reduces noise volume. A useful tip.

I am going to get a lid to try the dustbin idea which is designed to increase capacity for dust and chippings, not suck power. The theory is that dust and chippings enter the dustbin from say the P/T, heavier particles fall to the bottom, smaller particles remain higher in the bin as a vortex of air swirls round the bin with fine particles being sucked out to the storage attached to the vacuum. I am no vacuum engineer but does this sound logical?

I already have a single motor wall mounted 286 and Phillip thought this would be powerful enough to handle a dustbin type set-up. I will check this again just to be sure.

My plan based on the above is to install a new Camvac 336 single motor 100mm machine under the bench to attach directly to a range of small machines. I have some 63mm hose and may reduce this to make use of that hose. I am going to try and avoid a lot of ducting if I can.

A separate dedicated 100mm machine, for my P/T with an intermediate dustbin collector is the plan, single or twin motor to be decided. Housed outside like my current set-up in a cupboard on the wall of the workshop.

Hope I get this right!

Cheers, Tony.

 

[Recky33]

Tony, try making one of these, http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=15.0 you prob have most of the bits hanging around anyway, works for 100mm and vac pipes, only diff is the gap between the top and bottom.

Allan