Slippery-sloping

[Noggsy]

Right, you buggers have lured me into your strange cult I've been reading this forum for a few months and I went from none to one plane quite easily and quickly. Then, the other day, whilst buying some proper kit (for turning), I ended up buying a couple of number 5s and another number 4. So I've now played with sharpening one of each at 20 and 25 degrees and have planed a large block of sapele for no reason other than I wanted to try them out. The next thing I know, I'm searching the bay, Preloved and Gumtree for try planes and spending hours looking at Axminster LN ****...what have you done to me???

Tonight, I drove half an hour to pick up what might be a bargain 21" wooden plane (£12), and which looks flat and in decent condition (not that I really know). I'll put some piccies below so you can tell me what to do next. Please make it quick so that I can get back to my lathe

I can't see any maker's marks on the plane, but the iron and the chip-breaker are both marked Ward.

It's a heavy beast.

A bit of damage to the ends.

Finally, a freebie...

Seven planes I now own...thanks a lot!

Lovely bloke who sold it to me, very interesting (former turner you see), I could have stayed all night.

 

[mancsteve1]

Welcome to the slope Noggsy,this is exactly how i started i now spend weekends perusing carboots etc.
It gets you out of the house and meeting people who are as strange as us :wink:

You do realise there is no known cure.

Lovely purchase by the way.

 

[jimi43]

Noggsy...you hit quality right from day one...that is one gorgeous try/jointer!

And armed with the top of the quality chain were Sheffield is concerned IMHO.

So your task for the next time you're in the shop is to whip that cap iron off and sharpen up that iron and get her tuned (don't forget the chipbreaker too!)....and then let us see some shavings mate! 8)

Jim

 

[Noggsy]

Cheers Jimi, shame you're not nearer mate I know you love your corro-dip, but in the absence of that, what's the best way for me to clean up the ironwork? I'm fairly happy with sharpening (I've got a Tormek) but not the de-rusting. Also, if the sole does need flattening, will a shorter granite slab be ok with wet and dry like for a metal plane?

 

[AndyT]

Welcome to the downhill rush! Those try planes are really useful and functional planes but seem under-appreciated by the ebaying market place. I guess some of the problem is that they are so heavy, so the postage can exceed the selling price. So well done you for getting a local pick-up - which can so often lead to an interesting discussion and the odd extra item! (Can we see an end-on shot of the extra plane btw - I can't quite make out what it is.)

As for the rust on the iron, although you've not shown us the cutting edge, there is so little rust on that one that I would not do very much to it at all. Sharpening will naturally clean up the bits that really matter. To stabilise the rest I'd probably just rub it over with a bit of coarse rag and some old fashioned graphited penetrating oil.

One other thing: the grain pattern on your plane shows the classic symmetrical pattern you only get with a radially cleft billet, so any shrinkage will not distort the flatness. But it was usual to put the bark side of the wood towards the sole; yours is the other way up. I don't think this will matter at all.

 

[Waka]

Oh dear another one way down the slope.

Looks and excellent buy, let us know what its like when you've sharpened and tuned it.

 

[Noggsy]

Thanks for the advice. I've sharpened the iron, which went well, but I noticed a small nick in the cutting edge and couldn't work out why. I then resharpened it and when I used it, loads more nicks appeared. I presume this means the iron is knackered? I've got some photos, but I'm away on holiday with very little reception, so I'll post them at the weekend.

 

[jimi43]

Thanks for the advice. I've sharpened the iron, which went well, but I noticed a small nick in the cutting edge and couldn't work out why. I then resharpened it and when I used it, loads more nicks appeared. I presume this means the iron is knackered? I've got some photos, but I'm away on holiday with very little reception, so I'll post them at the weekend.

Hi Noggsy

Sounds like the iron is terminally pitted and as you are grinding a new edge you are exposing the pits. It's a bit like open-cast mining...they aren't going to go away...just keep revealing themselves. This is one problem of old steel...if they are too deep it is simply not worth fixing.

Can you measure the width for me and I will see if I have a suitable contemporary candidate in my "cave" to replace your one.

It certainly deserves it. If not I can point you in the direction of one.

Jimi

 

[GazPal]

Have you flattened the back of the iron as thoroughly as possible? If the surface is pitted you'll find such problems highlighted in the form of nicks/notches/flaws as the pits are exposed when you try for a freshly sharpened edge.

Edit: ..... Jim posted as I typed this reply

 

[Noggsy]

Thanks guys and particularly Jimi for that generous offer. I'll post details when I get back on Sunday.

As an aside, I'm on Arran at the moment (stunning place) and I saw an old R Sorby dovetail/tenon saw for £6 in a shop. I know Sorby are a good make and the brass-back looked in good nick and its very rigid, but half the teeth were broken. I do actually need (well, want I suppose) a dovetail saw, but is it going to be possible and economical to re-grind the full length do you think? I haven't bought it, but I could easily go back.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

£6?............£6 - And you didn't buy it?

 

[AndyT]

As an aside, I'm on Arran at the moment (stunning place) and I saw an old R Sorby dovetail/tenon saw for £6 in a shop. I know Sorby are a good make and the brass-back looked in good nick and its very rigid, but half the teeth were broken. I do actually need (well, want I suppose) a dovetail saw, but is it going to be possible and economical to re-grind the full length do you think? I haven't bought it, but I could easily go back.

If the saw plate is straight and not cracked, and if the handle is a good comfortable one, go for it. Retoothing a fine-tooth saw is something I've not tried yet, but from what I have read:

- there isn't actually a lot of metal to remove so it might take less time than you think
- you can remove the old teeth with a file
- you can use a suitable tpi hacksaw blade as a guide to filing your new teeth (with the option of using every second tooth if it's a fine hacksaw)
- fine dovetail saws can be filed rip, which is the simplest shape to file.

 

[Noggsy]

Phil - I know, I know. I got talking to the guy in the shop (a turner) and then realised my poor wife was sat in the car waiting (I only 'nipped' in). I forgot, but I think I'll go back.

Andy - thanks for that, doesn't sound that easy, but I'll give it a go. I'm pretty sure everything was straight with no cracks.

 

[jimi43]

Jump on it mate.....my little Robert is a beautiful saw....

Mind you...the teeth have been Pedderized.....

Enjoy the rest of your trip!

Jim

 

[Noggsy]

Ok, so I've bought the saw...how do I make it look like yours Jimi? That looks lethal...

Looks like yours I think Jimi

And here's a close up of the teeth

Here's the little plane as asked

Here's the big plane iron after sharpening and use...

...to make these

 

[jimi43]

Nice saw Noggsy!!! And in far better initial nick than my Robert!

I would invest in sharpening that properly....Pedder is in Germany...partner in Two Lawyers Tools and frequent poster on the forum.

It might seem crazy doing a round trip to Germany to get a saw sharpened but it's something I wouldn't hesitate to do again if the need arose. And yes...it is lethal!

The iron looks like a typical deep pitted edge...each time you grind the bevel you are exposing more and more pitting.

Two cures for this...one is to flatten the face (flat side) down below all pit bottoms...you only need to do this for the first inch but even then...this can prove a bit of a chore. It's hardened steel laminated to a soft steel back...you can see the transition in the bevel (dark to light)...

I don't have pictures of my iron restoration but I do have some wide chisels which shows you the process:

Here we can see the pitting...not too bad but enough to affect the edge:

I just go down the grits from really rough to as fine as you want....

)

Use as rough as you want at first (but flat....stuck here to Corian)....the idea is to keep it flat but remove enough steel to get below the rust pits....

Once you can only see pure steel you then run down the grits removing the scratches each time until you are happy...

You don't have to go to mirror finish to cut well but Bill likes it... :mrgreen:

Second option is to ditch it and try another one. I don't think I have a WARD and PAYNE (my favourite irons) but I do have some I.Sorbys which may fit...let me know the width and I will check.

Cheers

Jimi

 

[AndyT]

I'll just add that your little plane is an unusual pattern and I would guess that it was user-made. Reasons why - it doesn't look like beech, the wedge is very angular and there's a very big gap forward of the blade. It's also an unusual pattern, something between a very narrow rebate plane and a grooving plane with no steel skate. That said, I do have a French one which is a bit similar, so if it is marked at all it may be a continental visitor.

 

[pedder]

Hi,

it looks like the deep pitting causes the breakeage of the teeth. Not sure, but I would replace the blade.

Cheers
Pedder

 

[Noggsy]

Pedder, is that likely to be economic to do? I was thinking of trying to get the teeth reground from scratch - is that going to be a waste of money do you think? If I sent it to you, how much would it cost to regrinding d and is that something you would be prepared to do?

Andy, Jimi cheers for that.

 

[Noggsy]

Pedder, is that likely to be economic to do? I was thinking of trying to get the teeth reground from scratch - is that going to be a waste of money do you think? If I sent it to you, how much would it cost to regrind it and is that something you would be prepared to do?

Andy, Jimi cheers for that.