Side Rebate Planes

[Saint Simon]

Christmas money and a new book on hand-made furniture have got me thinking about side rebate planes.

Even taking great care with knifing the edges of my rebate-plane-worked-dadoes the they always seem a bit hairy. Are side rebate planes the answer? Does anyone have experience of these to pass on, of which models work best and how difficult is the blade adjustment to achieve fine even cuts? Is this easier with separate left and right hand models?

Best Wishes for the New year
Simon

 

[AndyT]

I'd have thought the biggest factor in the 'hairiness' would be the timber - are you working in softwood? But then, I can't easily think of a situation where the side of the rebate would show - it will get filled up by whatever is fitting into it, and any whiskers will get crushed.

However, to answer the question a bit, for the few times I have used any, I'd say that the wooden style of side rebate is much easier to handle, as it has a full length toe and is therefore easier to keep level. Of course, that would be a disadvantage if you could not work right through, in which case you'd need one of the metal style ones.

 

[Mike Wingate]

I use the compact double bladed Record model. A lifesaver. I am quite happy using a router, I always cut across the grain with a knife prior to routing of removing the waste with saw, chisel, router plane and side rebate plane. I have never been too happy with the small cross grain cutters in sash fillisters etc.

 

[Harbo]

I have an old Stanley double one (79) which works OK but not that easiest to use and to sharpen?

Derek Cohen did a review "In The Woodshop".

Rod

 

[jimi43]

Funnily enough, I was looking at these the other day.

The vintage ones are not cheap...even on Fleabay....

I am still looking into them though...do I really need one?

Jim

 

[Alf]

Even taking great care with knifing the edges of my rebate-plane-worked-dadoes the they always seem a bit hairy. Are side rebate planes the answer?

Um, yes and no. Side rebates are really there if you need to tweak the fitting of a housing, if for whatever reason you can't adjust the thickness of the the other part. Veneered or already finished shelf, for instance. They work well, but it's a bit of a fiddle and less frustrating if you can get your initial cutting good enough. As Andy says, if the hairiness is within the housing, it's unlikely to be an issue anyway. As long as you knife your edges with a nice firm score line - with a sharp knife! - then you should be okay.

Does anyone have experience of these to pass on, of which models work best and how difficult is the blade adjustment to achieve fine even cuts? Is this easier with separate left and right hand models?

Having said all that, when you find yourself with a side rebate plane job, it can be a lifesaver. I, er, um, have the L-N 98/99s, a Stanley 79 and the Veritas jobbie. Of the three, the Veritas is far and away the most comfortable to hold while the L-Ns are probably the most awkward (particularly if you have larger hands, I would imagine). The Stanley is easiest to change direction with, assuming you leave both blades set. If you retract the trailing one, and some people do and some don't, then obviously it's no advantage over flipping round the fence on the Veritas. Having to store/carry/find amongst the shavings on the bench two planes in the form of the L-Ns may or may not be considered a problem. If you want to cobble up an angled fence for trimming dovetail housings etc, then the Stanley's fence is probably the most friendly, and its long length gives you plenty of registration all the time, which is quite nice. You do need to watch that you set it parallel mind you, but that's not hard. All three are pretty fiddly to set up, but the Veritas does at least have a sprung lever cap which holds the blades as you adjust depth of cut. For a mechanically adjusted depth setting you'll need a Preston 1369, iirc. (Good luck with that...) Both the Veritas and L-Ns will cut to 1/2" deep in as narrow as a 3/16" slot, but iirc, I found the Stanley can go a little deeper. For looks, the L-Ns win all accolades. And why do I still have all three? The Veritas because it's the most comfortable; the L-Ns for sentimental reasons (My First L-Ns - awwww) ; the Stanley for when I ever get round to needing an angled fence and possibly (iirc) that marginally great depth.

Here's Derek's review of the Veritas - and I see I'm not the only one with a side rebate problem...

 

[jimi43]

Um, yes and no. Side rebates are really there if you need to tweak the fitting of a housing, if for whatever reason you can't adjust the thickness of the the other part. Veneered or already finished shelf, for instance. They work well, but it's a bit of a fiddle and less frustrating if you can get your initial cutting good enough. As Andy says, if the hairiness is within the housing, it's unlikely to be an issue anyway. As long as you knife your edges with a nice firm score line - with a sharp knife! - then you should be okay.

Does anyone have experience of these to pass on, of which models work best and how difficult is the blade adjustment to achieve fine even cuts? Is this easier with separate left and right hand models?

Having said all that, when you find yourself with a side rebate plane job, it can be a lifesaver. I, er, um, have the L-N 98/99s, a Stanley 79 and the Veritas jobbie. Of the three, the Veritas is far and away the most comfortable to hold while the L-Ns are probably the most awkward (particularly if you have larger hands, I would imagine). The Stanley is easiest to change direction with, assuming you leave both blades set. If you retract the trailing one, and some people do and some don't, then obviously it's no advantage over flipping round the fence on the Veritas. Having to store/carry/find amongst the shavings on the bench two planes in the form of the L-Ns may or may not be considered a problem. If you want to cobble up an angled fence for trimming dovetail housings etc, then the Stanley's fence is probably the most friendly, and its long length gives you plenty of registration all the time, which is quite nice. You do need to watch that you set it parallel mind you, but that's not hard. All three are pretty fiddly to set up, but the Veritas does at least have a sprung lever cap which holds the blades as you adjust depth of cut. For a mechanically adjusted depth setting you'll need a Preston 1369, iirc. (Good luck with that...) Both the Veritas and L-Ns will cut to 1/2" deep in as narrow as a 3/16" slot, but iirc, I found the Stanley can go a little deeper. For looks, the L-Ns win all accolades. And why do I still have all three? The Veritas because it's the most comfortable; the L-Ns for sentimental reasons (My First L-Ns - awwww) ; the Stanley for when I ever get round to needing an angled fence and possibly (iirc) that marginally great depth. ...

This is an interesting multi-review ALF.

I do hope that someone building copies these days...(QS?) take care to read your user points of the various offerings available and their pros and cons. A useful tool which would benefit from a little hybridisaion I think. :wink:

Jim

 

[Scouse]

Sorry to hijack, but does anyone know if the L-N 98/99 blades will fit my pair of early Stanley 98/99?

 

[Alf]

I'm thinking probably not as they offer ones for the Stanleys on their replacement blade page.

Jim, I believe there's a "WoodRiver" side rebate been seen knocking about. Yeah, here it is, but it appears to be a straightforward knock-off of the old Record/Preston/Sargent variety.

 

[Racers]

Hi,

I have a Record 2506 and Stanley 98/99 I usually reach for the Stanley ones. there on a shelf and the Record is in a box! so its easer to get to, I used to use the Record all the time, so it works fine, I got a Stanley 98 cheap, and had to buy the 99 to complete the set :roll:

So just pick up either one, the Records used to go for about £25 and the Stanleys for about the same each and lots more for the pair.

Pete

 

[eoinsgaff]

I'm a little puzzled about the use of the side rebate plane. I got the Veritas version to adjust dado's for shelves on a little project I'm doing. Stopped dado's mind. My question is, if I take off the front of the plane to make it into a 'Bullnose' type as described on Dereks review, how do I start the shaving. Without the front of the plane, the fully exposed blade is the first to approach the wood and has no depth control. I'm sure there is a simple solution but I'm at a loss right now. I hope I'm not hijacking this thread but it seems a relevant point.

Eoin

PS, Happy new year to all here.

 

[Alf]

Go as far as you can with the nose in place, then finish off in bullnose fashion, I imagine. I haven't actually had cause to do it, mind you, so if someone has a better idea I won't argue.

 

[Argus]

.

Interesting discussion so far.


I have two sitting side by side on my shelf; an old Edward Preston Veritas look-alike and a fairly late-model Stanley 79 that I bought new about 15 years ago. Despite its somwhat rudimentary finish and hard corners, my own working preference (based on the amount of times it is off the shelf and in use) is a the double-ended Stanley 79. This is mainly because it has a depth-stop that can also be used as a side brace to keep the whole thing vertical and as a fence for narrow sided edge work; I do confess to finding this bit very useful. Despite being a modern one, the blades take (and hold) a good edge which is just as well because they are small and difficult to hold on a stone. Once I have got the angle right, I tend to just flat the backs of the blades and give it a wipe on some rouge.

I should add that I use hard Oak for the most part. Not the kindest material for any plane.

Having said all that, I can’t remember when I used the Preston last…..

They are all a pain to get the blades angled and seated just right to take an even shaving and the Stanley 79 is a double pain because you have to do it twice. But once done it is worth it and mine works very well. I have set both blades to take an even, thin shaving and then locked them both in place. It makes no sense to me to retract one blade, though being right handed the forward-going blade does the most work.


But it’s all a matter of personal preference…….


.

 

[AndyT]

I'm a little puzzled about the use of the side rebate plane. I got the Veritas version to adjust dado's for shelves on a little project I'm doing. Stopped dado's mind. My question is, if I take off the front of the plane to make it into a 'Bullnose' type as described on Dereks review, how do I start the shaving. Without the front of the plane, the fully exposed blade is the first to approach the wood and has no depth control. I'm sure there is a simple solution but I'm at a loss right now. I hope I'm not hijacking this thread but it seems a relevant point.

Eoin

PS, Happy new year to all here.

Eoin

Looking at your plane cabinet project, for housings as short as yours, I'd just use a chisel and pare carefully - just on the edge that doesn't show (depending whether you look up or down at it). Or do as you have done, and ease the undersides of the shelves.

 

[eoinsgaff]

Sound Alf. The power of simple logic. It would have been a reasonable approach. I have some rebates to get smooth so I'll try this approach there.

Andy, again on reflection, that would have been a very reasonable approach. I had ruled this out without consideration early on and it was forgotten about. Learning mistakes I guess.

I would still be interested to see if there is an alternative to Alf's suggestion. I'm doubtful however.

Eoin

 

[dickm]

For a mechanically adjusted depth setting you'll need a Preston 1369, iirc. (Good luck with that...)

Hadn't looked at this thread before, but lo and behold, today I acquired (most of ) one of these. Had a quick Google, and it appears it's missing the handle (so I don't know if it was originally the domed or the "banana" style) one blade and both adjusters. The adjusters look like a simple bit of lathe work to reproduce, but the handle won't be easy. There is just a chance I can track down the box of odds and bobs in which it was, but it's a slim chance. No-one out there happens to have either type of handle lying around, do you????????????

Don't really need it, as I've already got and use a Record version of SRP, but the magic word Preston set my acquisitive juices flowing.....