Shoulder Plane Size

[Biliphuster]

I am considering buying a shoulder plane and thus weighing up the different options as far as width goes. I am considering both the 3/4" models and the 1 1/4" models.

I suppose the 3/4" will be fine for most jobs, it is rare that I cut a tenon shoulder or rebate more than 3/4" wide, but it does happen. Are there any disadvantages to the 1 1/4" size? Beyond being heavier I can't see how the larger size will restrict use.

Unfortunately Clifton don't do a 1 1/4" size, otherwise I could buy that and be happy.

Thoughts?

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I find the wide shoulder planes cumbersome to use. My preference is a 1/2" or 3/4" Veritas. These are mainly used to form or fine tune rebates (I tune tenon shoulders with a chisel).

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[AndyT]

I'm currently building a little table and writing up my experiences in the projects section.
To cut the shoulders on some short, wide tenons I split off the cheeks and planed back to the line with a small shoulder plane. It worked well. post1196748.html#p1196748. The plane was one I made myself and is about 3/4" wide.
What I didn't show in the thread is that I did try using a bigger plane for the job - a Record 73, which is 1 1/4" wide. Because there was less than half the sole on the shoulder, it was much harder to use.

So I'd say it depends on what scale of work you are likely to do. Boxes and fiddly furniture need a small plane. Doors and joinery need a bigger one.

 

[Peter Sefton]

My favourite is the Clifton 410 at 3/4" wide, it feels just right in my hand. If you are looking for wider then the Clifton 3110 combination shoulder plane is a very good option at 1 1/8" wide and only 6" long.

The Woodriver 93 is 1" wide and at 8 1/4" long and would be better suited to big work. I think you need to try and think what size work you are doing and buy the smaller size for ease of use.

Cheers Peter

 

[custard]

One of the problems of woodworking in the internet age is that you don't get the opportunity to try before you buy. If you went through traditional training you'd get the chance to play around with different tools and decide which one you're most comfortable with. Personally I'm happiest with the bigger 1 1/4" shoulder plane, even on very small workpieces.

I was intrigued by Derek's post about using a chisel to clean up shoulders. I've seen first hand some really excellent craftsmen who work the same way, so there's no doubt it can be successful, but for the life of me I've no idea how! Unless the shoulders are angled, as they sometimes are in chairs for example, then I always use a shoulder plane on shoulders...after all there's a clue in the name!

I don't want to sound like a silly tool fanboy, but I must say I'm impressed with the Veritas shoulder planes. They're no where near as pretty as some of the alternatives, but from a user perspective they're just superb tools in the hand.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I always try to discourage my students buying tools before they come on a course, come and play with all the kit in my workshop first so you can make your own mind up.

As you can see Custard and I like different planes for the same job, and I work in a similar fashion to Derek and usually cut all my shoulders from the chisel which suits me. I think this comes about because I couldn't afford a descent shoulder plane as a youngster so you adapt.

When I first started out I shared a workshop with a mate his go to plane was the number 3 mine was the number 7, we both had Jacks and borrowed each others kit until we could afford our own.

If you are in the area you are always welcome to come to the school and shop to try before you buy. We still go to woodworking shows so customers can look and feel before making tool buying mistakes.

Cheers Peter

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

...
I was intrigued by Derek's post about using a chisel to clean up shoulders. I've seen first hand some really excellent craftsmen who work the same way, so there's no doubt it can be successful, but for the life of me I've no idea how! Unless the shoulders are angled, as they sometimes are in chairs for example, then I always use a shoulder plane on shoulders...after all there's a clue in the name!

I don't want to sound like a silly tool fanboy, but I must say I'm impressed with the Veritas shoulder planes. They're no where near as pretty as some of the alternatives, but from a user perspective they're just superb tools in the hand.

Hi Custard

I've commented on using a chisel for shoulders before now. About a month ago I described sawing the shoulders a smidgeon above the line, and then removing the waste with a chisel. This is beautifully demonstrated in the following video by Phillip Lowe. Look for this around the 2:00 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Neq8EoQdY

I will also work the cheeks with a wide chisel, although this depends on the grain/hardness of the wood. My alternative is a router plane. With regards the chisel here (again beautifully demoed by Phillip Lowe in the first part of the video), I just find there is so much more control than with a wide shoulder plane or even a block plane such as the LN rabbet plane. I am also a fan of Veritas shoulder planes, but if working the cheeks, I would rather use a 1" Stanley #93, because it is low and better balanced.

I have all three Veritas shoulder planes (1/2", 3/4" and 1 1/4"). I also have a Norris 1 1/4". Ironically, I purchased the Veritas 1 1/4" on a visit to Lee Valley in Canada in 2013. I think it has been used half a dozen times. I should have learned my lesson from the Norris, which is also nice to look at on the shelf. Very occasionally I will use a shoulder plane to fine tune a smidgeon on a shoulder. The rest of the rime they are used to plane rebates (when a fillester cannot be used), or to square rebates.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Hi,

FWIW my favourite is the middle-sized Veritas, which is a size appropriate for most things. I think you would not go wrong with this as your first (or even only) shoulder plane.

For wider cuts I like to use a rabbet block plane e.g. https://www.workshopheaven.com/quangshe ... ype-3.html

For big - structural - timbers I like a No 10 e.g. https://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-384871/fai ... ane10.html on green oak is a real pleasure to use (and avoids exposing more precious tools to "tannin juice" and site work generally).

For smaller cuts, maybe a sharp chisel, as already mentioned.

Cheers, W2S

 

[Dangermouse 2nd]

if you want a wide shoulder plane, but worried about the size and how heavy it is , this is a reaonably prices alterative and extremly well made.

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodworkin ... nds+dk1335

 

[IWW]

if you want a wide shoulder plane, but worried about the size and how heavy it is , this is a reaonably prices alterative and extremly well made.

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodworkin ... nds+dk1335

Hmmm, while I'm sure the rebate block plane would do at a pinch, I'm not sure it really substitutes for a shoulder plane. As Derek Cohen has pointed out elsewhere, one of the features of shoulder planes is the long toe, which allows firm & accurate registration of the tool before starting the cut. It would also be a bit awkward to hold, most shoulder planes are comparatively tall, and there's usually enough sticking out above the tenon to hang on to & avoid trimming one's fingers in the process.

Many moons ago, I made myself a brass & Rosewood, 1 1/4" infill SP, and was more than happy with it - the heft is an advantage in most situations, and it only occasionally seemed cumbersome. But being an inveterate tool maker, I'd always planned to make a smaller sibling, and finally made this 3/4" job, not so long ago. The shape is based on an illustration of an old Millers (of London) example:

The other day I used it to trim a rather small piece (the edge of the bun on another small infill plane, as it happens) and it was perfect for the job, though I could've done it with the larger plane, or even pared it with a chisel, come to that. If I were only allowed one SP, I think it would be the larger one that I'd keep, but if it had to be the 3/4", that would do for 99% of what I use them for.

But having said all that, a SP is one of the tools I could live without if I had to pare down my toolkit. We were taught the chisel method of trimming tenon shoulders by our old cabinetmaker teacher in school back in the 50s, and it was the method I used for donkeys' years. I still use it quite often, it can sometimes be more convenient than using the SP, and with a knifed line, a very sharp chisel, and a modicum of care, you'd be hard-pressed to spot the difference.....

Cheers,

 

[StraightOffTheArk]

IWW -That's a very nice looking plane - what's the knurled brass knob for?

Cheers,

Carl

 

[IWW]

....... - what's the knurled brass knob for? .......

Hi Carl, that's my patent wedge-locker.

There are a couple of reasons I departed from a traditional wedge. It was made to have the typical wedge bearing against a bridge riveted in the body, but I found the slope I chose was probably a bit shallow & the wedge tended to lock in very firmly,even with quite light taps. It required several hard wallops on the back of the plane to loosen it, whenever I wanted to re-set or sharpen the blade. I don't like whacking planes at the best of times, so I had a little think & came up with this idea, a 6mm screw which goes through the bridge & bears on a brass cup let into the top of the wedge. The wedge is 'sprung' by scraping out a concavity between the toe and where it bears on the blade at the back. The screw bears down roughly above the centre of the concavity, & the M6 pitch seems to be able to apply more than enough pressure to hold the blade. It works a treat, no more bashing to release the wedge. I think it also makes setting easier, you can 'dial in' just the right pressure to hold the blade firmly while you tap & test, then give it a little tweak when the cut is right to tighten it down firmly.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[Racers]

I use the same system on my shoulder plane.

Triming feathers by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

Pete

 

[StraightOffTheArk]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the explanation - I thought it must be something to do with holding the iron, but there's a wedge - but what else could it be for? Was going round in my mind and as I was getting nowhere fast, I thought I'd better ask and break the brain loop!

Cheers,

Carl

 

[swb58]

I use the same system on my shoulder plane.

Triming feathers by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

Pete

What a good idea the spacer in the vice, nice one. =D> 1/4" ply?

 

[Racers]

Yep, its not my idea I nicked it from somewhere.

Pete

 

[Biliphuster]

Thank you all for the wealth of information.

Unfortunately it looks like there is no clear cut right answer as to which size would be better.

At the moment I trim my tenon shoulders with a chisel, but especially for the squaring of rebates I think a shoulder plane would be handy, and for this I would prefer the larger plane.

I was sort of leaning away from a (secondhand) infill as I was worried they may require some pretty tricky fettling, but the examples on show here are very impressive.

I think I will park this for now, as I am getting along fine without one at the moment and wait until the right plane presents itself to me.

 

[IWW]

I use the same system on my shoulder plane.....

Oh well, no use submitting that patent application, then...... :lol:

I see you went to the bother of including a screw adjuster, Pete. Looks like a similar arrangement to what I did for my first SP, for which I used a Record replacement blade. At the time, I had access to a small hobby-type metal lathe so I made up a brass knob & press-fitted a steel disc to engage the slot:

The lead-screw is threaded into the back of the (brass) blade bed & given the primitive gear I had, I got it nicely aligned by chance & good luck. 'Tisn't a raging success. The blade is bedded at 18 degrees, so screw movement is nearly all translated into effective blade movement. At the pitch of the lead screw (1/4" NF), that means 35 thou for a full turn - even a tenth of a turn gives a couple of thou movement of the cutting edge, so setting it for a fine cut can be an exercise in frustration. Since then, most of the planes I've made don't have screw adjusters. Those who do it regularly know it's quite easy to adjust a blade with a hammer, but of course I didn't believe it until I made the effort to learn..... :wink:

Anyway, that's the long story of why I didn't bother with a screw adjuster with this one. I might add one sometime down the track, just for the fun of doing it, but there's a better than even chance I won't ever get the round tuit, so it will probably remain a 'tapitty-tap' adjuster while I own it.....

Cheers,