Shooting board versus mitre trimmer for fine boxes

[BradyS]

Good day!

As the thread name suggests it, I would appreciate some professional opinions from those of you who have used or are using ideally both of these options. I am looking for a long term solution regarding mitred joints. A part of my intended activity is going to be fine box making. I'm still learning to use hand tools.

Now I have neither used a mitre (guillotine), nor a shooting board. I don't own a low angle jack plane. Theory, yes, I gathered around both. Looking for more hands-on points of view here from you.

I won't have much use for shooting boards except for this purpose. Same goes for a mitre trimmer, although making picture frames would be lucrative in my area.

Since for me the costs of the plane, accessories and related jigs is similar to that of a used mitre trimmer (the tall, standing one, not the benchtop version), what do you suggest?

Much appreciated,
Brad

 

[--Tom--]

For boxes I’d go shooting plane as gives more versatility - doesn’t have to be expensive - a woody is easy to adjust to being 90degrees between side and sole and has good reference faces.

 

[Trafalgar]

Guillotine trimmer all day long. The biggest, baddest, heaviest, industrial-strength, cast iron monstrosity you can lay hands on will run circles around a silly shooting board.

 

[TRITON]

Each have their own pluses and minuses. Mitre trimmers are good for small stuff, for example you've a pile of doors needing mouldings, but they're not much use if the part is bigger than 4"
Shooting boards need constructed, and you have to get it 100% first off, which might require you to remake and remake again.

 

[BradyS]

Each have their own pluses and minuses. Mitre trimmers are good for small stuff, for example you've a pile of doors needing mouldings, but they're not much use if the part is bigger than 4"
Shooting boards need constructed, and you have to get it 100% first off, which might require you to remake and remake again.

Thank you. I specifically mentioned the big size mitre trimmers. The model I'm considering has a cutting capacity of circa 180 x 100 mm, that's roughly 6.7 x 4 inches. And I've seen various information sources with renowed box makers who were using this machine for mitres.

 

[Sideways]

It's a one trick pony and not small but a big morso or similar guillotine cuts a clean mitre that has to be seen to be believed.

 

[paulrbarnard]

@BradyS from you reaction a few post up I’d say you were looking to justify the purchase of a mitre trimmer. If you want one go for it. But as said by @—Tom— a shooting board, and certainly the plane is far more versatile.

 

[johnnyb]

I can imagine a mitre trimmer having capacity and leaving a polished cut but every one I've used has not been super accurate. I had a monster American one got the knives ground and it was awesome but it was never perfectly accurate and the blades soon went off sharp. If you could set it up perfect it would work.
I'd choose a perfectly set table saw 80t blade and a sled. Bang on every time both on angle and cut length(being jigged).

 

[johnnyb]

Don't forget flat and square and equal length is also important. The mitre is a very fussy joint for perfection imho.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Don't forget flat and square and equal length is also important. The mitre is a very fussy joint for perfection imho.

A very good point.

I don’t see there being a right or wrong answer to the question of which to use..

If you want to create a mitre joint by pulling down a lever go for the guillotine. I’d say that takes less skill and agree with the comment of it being a one trick pony but it’s perhaps the most time efficient.

If you like the whoosh of the plane and the increased sense of satisfaction of having and using the skill go down the shooting board route.

 

[recipio]

There is more to making boxes than cutting miters. Plain miters can be cut in a variety of ways but how .will you strengthen them ? I notice an increasing tendency to use CA glue to hold them and then insert 2-3 mm slips of wood into router cut slots but I think that's a bit of a cop out. You would be better advised to look at the miter lock joints done on a router table which are a pain to set up certainly but very secure.
I would also look at the standard ' Lion ' miter trimmer which will cut very clean miters in smallish pieces for inlay etc.
I now use an American ' Miter fold blade' sold by Rockler in the US which does everything in one pass. You need a saw with a 5/8" arbour to use it unfortunately.

 

[johnnyb]

I've seen the mitre fold and heard its cool but I thought it was only for ply.
Does it work good for solid?
Is it cheap and easy to import?
Maybe a tool test needed here....hint hints....

 

[deema]

I have a Morso guillotine, it’s dead on accurate producing perfect mitre joints. It was designed to make picture frames, and has a large capacity. If you’ve priced up picture frame stock you will realise that accuracy and right first time are essential. The blades stay sharp on mine for ever. I don’t use it a huge amount, but in eight years, it’s so far not needed the blades sharpening! The cut is still ‘mirror’ perfect. I can cut off a shaving to adjust a joint that’s transparent! If you have space in your workshop for one, I’d get one. I don’t make picture frames, and use it for all sorts of stuff.

 

[recipio]

I've seen the mitre fold and heard its cool but I thought it was only for ply.
Does it work good for solid?
Is it cheap and easy to import?
Maybe a tool test needed here....hint hints....

Originally designed by a chap called Andy Klein to make boxes out of one piece of ply. However I found that it will cut clean miter fold joints across solid wood with the help of a sled. It's particularly useful for cutting veneered wood although you will probably want to insert solid inlays on the corners to protect them anyway. Lots of videos on You Tube showing it in use and Rockler will send you one from the website. Postage and custom charges will apply of course.

 

[johnnyb]

Could you talk us through the finer details? Do you leave a smchidge or a bit more ? Can you cut through?

 

[HOJ]

making picture frames would be lucrative in my area

In some respects you have answered your own question, to my mind, If picture frames would be a better opportunity, I would look at box making in a secondary light and deal with them separately in the future.

 

[johnnyb]

Rockler mo longer ship the miter fold blade unfortunately.

 

[recipio]

Rockler mo longer ship the miter fold blade unfortunately.

US shops may not send goods directly to Europe ' it tends to be hit and miss. You can register with a shipping agency like Shipito and rockler will send the goods there

I made a sled 100cms long x16cms deep You can then align pencil marks on the piece with the cut on the back of the fence of the sled. Leave a sliver of wood on top to pivot the joint closed or just use some tape.
I don't think Andy klein designed the blades to do this but it works just fine for me. The blades are very sharp and function as a regular dado set as well.Shame they don't sell it in Europe but are limited by the 5/8" arbour requirement

 

[johnnyb]

I'd buy one but I'm rubbish at sorting stuff like that.

 

[BradyS]

@BradyS from you reaction a few post up I’d say you were looking to justify the purchase of a mitre trimmer. If you want one go for it. But as said by @—Tom— a shooting board, and certainly the plane is far more versatile.

Apologiea for yhe late replies. I'm on holiday and the reception is mostly absent.
@paulrbarnard - Thank you for the blunt point of view. I'm still a novice even if I've been learning for circa 3 years. And it's only recently that I started to learn hand planing. It's not that I'm trying to justify buying one. It's that, on the one hand, I have never used one such guillotine and for the time being this is a financial effort, on the other hand. I can't afford making the wrong investment.
The thing with the shoting board is that all its prerequisites are a little intimidating (to me). Perfectly adjusted plane, perfect flat, 100% square, etc. Since I've started woodworking I couldn't find one dead flat piece of ply to buy anywhere in my country. There are some practical considerations which do indeed make a "one tool solution" more atractive.
But I'm wiling to work and learn so I'm really 'listening' to yhe advice received here. I can leap into 'the unknown' and learn to build a shooting board. It still leaves the problem of which plane to use since I only own small ones or no. 4s, my biggest is a recently found no. 5 1/2 of unknown origin. But none low angle. And I suppose a jack is better suited here.