Sharpening very slim chisels. By hand.

[pe2dave]

How do you do it?
I've no fancy grinders etc.

The chisel causing me problems is about 3mm wide, 6 high and ideal for those
narrow spots.

I've an old oil stone.
Medium diamond stone
A couple of waterstones down to a Kingstone.

I can't find a jig to hold this shape, in fact one that will hold any of my Japanese
chisels (very short blades, wrong shape for my old Eclipse 36 which is fine for the old black chisels).

I can't keep the angle constant whilst 'rocking' to create a new bevel hence it's got
about 4 bevels at varying angles!

Suggestions appreciated for a) a jig I can use with odd shaped chisels,
b)a method that works for a 3mm chisel.


TIA Dave

 

[Woody Alan]

Make a two piece mould from a piece of hardwood that when placed around the blade and tightened say with a couple of screws. the chisel is eeffectively like the lead in a pencil...execept we are talking 1"-2" wide for the wood. Angle the bottom of the two pieces to be your honing angle, so when you sharpen you are sliding the block on the oilstone and the chisel gets a consistent honing angle. Remember the answer doesn't always have to be fancy to work.

Alan

 

[TonyW]

Hope these might be of some help:

http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/2007/11/23/sn/

Even better article
Derek Cohen 10cent Sharpening

Cheers
Tony

 

[matthewwh]

Hi Dave,

You might consider one of these little chaps, designed specifically for the type of tools you mention.



The polycarbonate washers squeeze the edges of the blade whilst the back of the blade registers against a pair of steel rods. This arrangement makes the shape of the other side of the blade irrelevant, ideal for the tapered blades of Japanese tools. At £26.50 it's not the cheapest honing guide ever, but when you consider that every component is individually handmade from scratch, in England, by the bloke who designed it - and some of them are down to tolerances of 1/3 of a thou, some might consider it a downright bargain.

The little one has a capacity of 0 to 1", there is also a wider version that goes up to 2-3/8".

 

[pe2dave]

Hope these might be of some help:
http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/2007/11/23/sn/
Even better article
Derek Cohen 10cent Sharpening

Cheers
Tony

Thanks Tony. At last I've found a reference to the ruler trick so often mentioned here.
Like the best, it's nice and simple! for reference.

I'm a bit stumped carving round these chisels though, they're 5x3mm which is near as darn it beyond my carving skills.

-
/ \
----
Sort of shape? An Isosceles trapezoid I'm told.

I'll think on the idea of 'building it up' though, see if I can come up with something
that'll match my skills!

Thanks.

 

[pe2dave]

Hi Dave,

You might consider one of these little chaps, designed specifically for the type of tools you mention.



The polycarbonate washers squeeze the edges of the blade whilst the back of the blade registers against a pair of steel rods. This arrangement makes the shape of the other side of the blade irrelevant, ideal for the tapered blades of Japanese tools..

Something about great minds there Matthew! I've just mailed Richard to see if his MkIII
will 'grip' my chisel!

As I noted in an earlier reply, the 'sides' of the chisel are tapered?
3.5mm down to 2.5, so there's no straight edge to get hold of from what I can see.
Is that what you meant with the washers squeezing the sides of the chisel?


Dave

 

[matthewwh]

Yep.

I have used the No 1 guide on dovetail chisels which have almost a sharp edge on the sides with no problem at all.

 

[pe2dave]

Yep.

I have used the No 1 guide on dovetail chisels which have almost a sharp edge on the sides with no problem at all.

Thanks Matthew.

Sounds about right! The number two design seems to be the same design
and extends up to my plane blades too. Just runs alongside the stone
instead of on it?

Expensive... but less so than scrapping two chisels I've cherished over ...
a good few years!

Dave

 

[Wiley Horne]

Hi Dave,

Please don't do the ruler trick with chisels.

All the advice above is good, regarding jigging your 3mm chisel for sharpening. If you want to do it freehand, try this....One hand on the handle of the chisel, the forefinger of the other hand directly over the bevel as it presses on the stone, so that you can actually feel when the flat of the bevel has contact. Sharpen that way. If you will put about a 25-27 degree bevel on the chisel, it will create a long enough flat that you will be able to feel the contact with your forefinger (with a bit of practice). This will make sharpening quick and effective, rather than a project in itself.

Wiley

 

[pe2dave]

Hi Dave,

Please don't do the ruler trick with chisels.

All the advice above is good, regarding jigging your 3mm chisel for sharpening. If you want to do it freehand, try this....One hand on the handle of the chisel, the forefinger of the other hand directly over the bevel as it presses on the stone, so that you can actually feel when the flat of the bevel has contact. Sharpen that way. If you will put about a 25-27 degree bevel on the chisel, it will create a long enough flat that you will be able to feel the contact with your forefinger (with a bit of practice). This will make sharpening quick and effective, rather than a project in itself.

Wiley

Sigh. If only. <admission>I'm right handed. Barely touch the handle in the right hand. Only pressure on the chisel is my left forefinger on top of the chisel (must admit, a bit up from the bevel). I *think* I can feel the bevel, but either I'm too impatient or the stone is too slow. I can never replace the chisel on the stone in the same place. Result? I get 44 bevels instead of one!</admission>

That's my reason for seeking mechanical aids... for sharpening chisels.

I've tried standing erect and feeling for the same place on my chest to get the angle right but still the same result.

YMMV WIley, for me I've admitted defeat in this area. After about 90 minutes I have a set of chisels very sharp (my definition), all except for this tiny begger. Grrr.

Do note the signature Wiley!!!
Someday, someday.

regards Dave

 

[pe2dave]

Hi Dave,
Please don't do the ruler trick with chisels.
Wiley

Now you have me curious. Why's that please? Makes sense. I bought a small 'low angle' plane, cheapo record job and the blade is a mile from flat. My chisels are up to 35 years old and have mostly been stored in sheds and garages so the backs are marked, if not rusty. Lifting that one degree seems to make sense to flat the 'bit that counts'.

regards Dave

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Dave

Wiley is absolutely correct - the ruler trick is NOT for chisels. I wrote that article about plane blades. You can use all of it except the ruler trick part for chisels.

If, however, you are freehanding the 3mm chisel, then I would recommend that you hollow grind it first (assuming it is a Western chisel, not a laminated Japanese blade). This will make it easier to register the blade flat.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[pe2dave]

Dave

Wiley is absolutely correct - the ruler trick is NOT for chisels. I wrote that article about plane blades. You can use all of it except the ruler trick part for chisels.

If, however, you are freehanding the 3mm chisel, then I would recommend that you hollow grind it first (assuming it is a Western chisel, not a laminated Japanese blade). This will make it easier to register the blade flat.
Derek

Doh! Another Homer'ism. Missed that bit Thanks Derek.

I certainly don't have the means to hollow grind the chisel though,
it's only 3mm at its widest, on the 'back'.
Yes, Japanese, but not laminated.
I could only afford two of those. My half inch and a 'plane' of a beast
at two inches. Lovely chisels and already 'hollowed' out.



regards Dave

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Ok Dave, here's an idea that just came to me ...

Make up the wooden sharpening guide in my article. Cost = 0

Now either chisel out (!), or use a saw, and form a groove 3mm wide in the lower section, making it half the depth of the chisel's body. Slide the chisel into this. It will hold the chisel vertical. The top half of the jig will hold the chisel firmly.

You could even make up a long block with several cut outs for narrow chisels.

Now just set the angle and hone away. You do not even need a protractor for this. Just set the chisel when the bevel is flat with the jig resting on a flat surface.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Wiley Horne]

Dave,

The reason for not using the ruler trick with chisels is that you want the back of the chisel to be dead flat, so that you can cut or pare straight down without the chisel pushing off the work. Or, if paring on the flat, the flat back allows the chisel to be registered to the work and make a dead level shaving. (There are also times when the chisel is used bevel down for paring, but right now I'm speaking of when you wish to use the back for registration). The flat back allows the chisel to be self-jigging for a straight-down cut or a flat paring cut.

[At the risk of my life, I will say it is also the case that very advanced workers sometimes deviate from these 'rules', but I don't want to go there.]

By the way, I don't mean to demean jigs. Jigs are useful things. One reason they are useful is that sharpening comprises numerous small lessons. One of the very first of these small lessons is to learn what 'sharp' is. The jig is helpful in that it lets you learn what sharp is, before you go any further. If you're trying to learn sharpness and technique together, you're never quite sure in the early learning stages if the blade is really sharp. By separating learning 'what is sharp' from learning technique, the jig overcomes that problem. The jig lets you isolate the sharpness issue. Once sharpness is known, then some people decide that they want to freehand sharpen, or hollow grind and freehand sharpen. And others stay with the jig [end of sermon].

Wiley

 

[pe2dave]

Ok Dave, here's an idea that just came to me ...
Make up the wooden sharpening guide in my article. Cost = 0
Now either chisel out (!), or use a saw, and form a groove 3mm wide in the lower section, making it half the depth of the chisel's body. Slide the chisel into this. It will hold the chisel vertical. The top half of the jig will hold the chisel firmly.

You could even make up a long block with several cut outs for narrow chisels.

Now just set the angle and hone away. You do not even need a protractor for this. Just set the chisel when the bevel is flat with the jig resting on a flat surface.

Regards from Perth

Derek

(Is this forum that popular that people from Oz visit?). I must admit I'm finding it pretty useful. some knowledgable people here.

Shows the length taper and the x-section taper. So it's not even an even groove!

I do like the jig idea at http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=53513
and I'm sure I could find some way of adapting it. I'll go and scribble whilst watching TV tonight.

regards Dave[/url]

 

[pe2dave]

Dave,

The reason for not using the ruler trick with chisels is that you want the back of the chisel to be dead flat, so that you can cut or pare straight down without the chisel pushing off the work. Or, if paring on the flat, the flat back allows the chisel to be registered to the work and make a dead level shaving. (There are also times when the chisel is used bevel down for paring, but right now I'm speaking of when you wish to use the back for registration). The flat back allows the chisel to be self-jigging for a straight-down cut or a flat paring cut.

[At the risk of my life, I will say it is also the case that very advanced workers sometimes deviate from these 'rules', but I don't want to go there.]

There are very few rules that aren't broken, just hope it's with good reason!
Over a few mm I doubt such a 'deviation' would hurt.

By the way, I don't mean to demean jigs. Jigs are useful things. One reason they are useful is that sharpening comprises numerous small lessons. One of the very first of these small lessons is to learn what 'sharp' is. The jig is helpful in that it lets you learn what sharp is, before you go any further. If you're trying to learn sharpness and technique together, you're never quite sure in the early learning stages if the blade is really sharp. By separating learning 'what is sharp' from learning technique, the jig overcomes that problem. The jig lets you isolate the sharpness issue. Once sharpness is known, then some people decide that they want to freehand sharpen, or hollow grind and freehand sharpen. And others stay with the jig [end of sermon].
Wiley

No, fair comment.
I learned what sharp meant some time back. I worked on the trawlers out of Grimsby and Hull. A dull gutting knife resulted in something known as Jumbo wrists. Sort of tendonitus thing (repetative strain injury) due to working 18 hours a day gutting fish. A sharp knife was kind of essential. Learn how to use the 'whiffling stick' (sharpening steel) or suffer.

I'm happy to stay with a jig... just that I need to find/make one first.

Am I the only one with more jigs than finished projects?
Most are quite unrecognisable without labelling!

regards Dave

 

[pe2dave]

Ok Dave, here's an idea that just came to me ...

Make up the wooden sharpening guide in my article. Cost = 0

Now either chisel out (!), or use a saw, and form a groove 3mm wide in the lower section, making it half the depth of the chisel's body. Slide the chisel into this. It will hold the chisel vertical. The top half of the jig will hold the chisel firmly.

You could even make up a long block with several cut outs for narrow chisels.

Now just set the angle and hone away. You do not even need a protractor for this. Just set the chisel when the bevel is flat with the jig resting on a flat surface.

Regards from Perth

Derek

http://flickr.com/photos/davepawson/2080831771/ Posted on Flickr with a couple of notes. I've insufficient shaft on the chisel to tilt the wood, so I've cut it at 25degrees. Intend to groove the 'lid' (where Derek suggested letting it into the main block), then screw (rather use those wood screws on the outside, threaded on the inside thingys) the cap to the base prior to using Dereks technique.

Any advance on this? How to add another 5 degrees? Shimmings no good here is it.


regards Dave[/url]

 

[bugbear]

Hi Dave,
Please don't do the ruler trick with chisels.
Wiley

Now you have me curious. Why's that please? Makes sense. I bought a small 'low angle' plane, cheapo record job and the blade is a mile from flat. My chisels are up to 35 years old and have mostly been stored in sheds and garages so the backs are marked, if not rusty. Lifting that one degree seems to make sense to flat the 'bit that counts'.

regards Dave

Because you subsequently cannot use the chisel to pare a flat surface.

BugBear

 

[pe2dave]

http://flickr.com/photos/davepawson/2080831771/ Posted on Flickr with a couple of notes. I've insufficient shaft on the chisel to tilt the wood, so I've cut it at 25degrees. Intend to groove the 'lid' (where Derek suggested letting it into the main block), then screw (rather use those wood screws on the outside, threaded on the inside thingys) the cap to the base prior to using Dereks technique.

Any advance on this? How to add another 5 degrees? Shimmings no good here is it.


Mark I created today.
Noticed:
1. That the chisel is bevelled at 27 degrees, not 25.
2. That I'd need a milling machine to get a channel which held the chisel.
3. That the distance between the wood and the emery paper is insufficient to
use a back and forth movement. Had to be sideways.

However, Holding the chisel (it wobbles a little in the channel) and rubbing sideways
it does do the job, albeit slowly. I must admit the only emery paper I have is 300 grit
so courser would be better. B&Q only do mixed packs at horrible prices!

Would I use it were it on the shelf? Probably not.
Counting my time only moderately the Richard Kell jig is starting to look attractive.


regards Dave