Sharpening Record No 4 - Silicon paper

[filthy paws]

HI there. Just joined the forums and a complete newbie when it comes to woodworking tools etc so please be patient...

Just picked up my first proper hand tool in a Record No 4 plane. It's in relatively good nick and although the blade needs a sharpen everything else seems pretty good. I've read a few posts on here (you guys seem to been extremely keen on planes, sharpening etc) so hopefully this question will be easy for you.

I'm thinking of sharpening the blade using the silicon carbide method. I have a good piece of marble to use as a flat base but wondered if you can pick up mixed packs of the silicon paper, from high grits right up to 1200+.

I'm sure i saw a link to it at one time but can't seem to find it now!

cheers

 

[Nigel]

Welcome to the forum

Axminster sell silicon carbide paper down to 2500 grit

The scary sharp method was how I learned to put an edge on a blade

Nigel

 

[Scrit]

Try your local Halfords, of all places. They do single grit silicone carbide papers down to around 1200/1500 grit. Alternatively any car paints place like AutoPaints will stock it as well

Scrit

 

[Benchwayze]

Welcome to the Forum.

Here in the West Mids I am lucky in having an old-fashioned ironmonger within easy reach. I can buy a single nail or screw if I want. I can also get the silicone grit papers too. If you have such a place up there in Edinburgh, they are always worth a try.

Good Luck

John

 

[filthy paws]

brilliant, thanks for the speedy responses... scary sharp was my goal as well.

i was sure i had seen packs of a mixture of different grits for around £15 on a woodworking website somewhere... never mind. I do have a big Hafords pretty close so will check out their section over the next day or 2.

many thanks

 

[mr]

i was sure i had seen packs of a mixture of different grits for around £15 on a woodworking website somewhere... never mind. I do have a big Hafords pretty close so will check out their section over the next day or 2.

many thanks

Did you mean this? http://www.workshopheaven.com/eStor...act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=Wetdrypack&cat=&catstr=

I investigated the scary sharp thing a while back and while it works and works well I can't see that its particularly economical in the long term. That £15 pack would, for example, probably last me less than a month. A few months and you've spent the same money as any other kind of sharpening "tool". Having said that I did find it quick, clean and easy to get good results.
Cheers Mike

 

[filthy paws]

hey Mr, that is the very fellow. many thanks for posting the link.

i only have the one plane and a couple of old chisels to sharpen up but if the bug does indeed bite i may invest in a few stones in the not too distant...

that multi-pack should keep me going in the meantime tho'

cheers

p.s. that site's sure got some nice lookin tools on it tho'

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi filthy paws

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[bugbear]

I investigated the scary sharp thing a while back and while it works and works well I can't see that its particularly economical in the long term.

Agreed.

But I think one of the nice aspects of scary sharp for someone "trying out" hand tools if that you can buy sharpening equipment that will give you an edge almost as good as the VERY BEST (and most expensive) systems out there for a capital outlay of under a fiver.

If you get sufficent enjoyment from using truly sharp tools, you may then move to a different system, but scary sharp provides a "low cost of entry" (as our economist friends would have it).

BugBear

 

[mr]

But I think one of the nice aspects of scary sharp for someone "trying out" hand tools if that you can buy sharpening equipment that will give you an edge almost as good as the VERY BEST (and most expensive) systems out there for a capital outlay of under a fiver.
BugBear

I would go as far as to say that it gives a better result than most other methods, certainly as far as the beginner is concerned. In my own case I haven't managed to get an edge as good, as fast and as easily in any other fashion. BUT it's just too expensive long term. I think it probably is the most expensive system out there when viewed over its lifetime. Low cost of entry perhaps but huge total cost of ownership as a method

cheers Mike

 

[Scrit]

Low cost of entry perhaps but huge total cost of ownership as a method

Sounds just like my van

Scrit

 

[mr]

Low cost of entry perhaps but huge total cost of ownership as a method

Sounds just like my van

Scrit

Alas the two things often go hand in hand.
Cheers Mike

 

[lurker]

Check out Screw fix prices for paper (under wet & dry abrasives)

10 sheets for less than 3 quid

Its good stuff - better than Halfords for sure

I find I get a near mirror finish with 600 but it does go down to 1200 if you have time to waste.

 

[Benchwayze]

This 'scary-sharp' idea intrigues me. (I prefer 'wicked-sharp'!)

I am still trying to figure out if 'scary-sharp' means ' as sharp as an iron should be' or if it is just the fact that you can shave the hairs off your forearm with a honed edge.

I've been able to do that without resorting to silicon-carbide paper, though I can see the advantage in always having a flat surface on which to hone, or for lapping a blade or plane-sole.

I will try this 'scary-sharp' method of sharpening, but I am a little dubious as to the need for a 'mirror finish' all over the back of a plane iron.

David Charlesworth shows superb examples, but as this is all hidden behind the chip breaker, surely an inch or so of polished blade is sufficient to give a truly sharp edge? In any case, the first time you need to give an iron a quick strop or a lick on a stone to bring it back, you'll lose the mirror finish, when you remove the wire-edge.

For me, as long as I see no light between iron and chipbreaker and the chipbreaker curve is polished, then my 'scary-sharp' blade will work just as well. The biggest problem is the grain size of modern metals used for irons. Short of replacing with Hock or similar irons, the ultimate edge is not really achievable anyway.

As to fettling the leading edge of the plane-mouth:
if one-thou shavings are the aim, surely they will pass through the mouth of the plane, without the need for a slope on the front of the mouth, thus weakening the edge of the casting.
(Sorry to question David Charlesworth's ideas. I'm not saying he is wrong, but I do wonder if the castings on his modified planes will stand the test of time, as have many standard, unfettled castings.)
Just my opinion! David might like to comment.


John

 

[ByronBlack]

John, DC uses his 'ruler trick' to only flatten the first few mm on the back of the plane blade this is a very quick process and means you don't have to polish the entire back of the plane blade - chisels are a different matter though.

 

[Anonymous]

Ahem, er, I'd suggest the old fashioned "scary simple & cheap" sharpening practice of freehand with oil stone.
The big sharpening problem which takes up so much space in the woodworking media, began with the widespread use of jigs - which appear to be such a good idea but actually make sharpening much more difficult.
My chisels and plane blades have never been sharper since I returned to the stone age.
If you click on the link there are further links to the discussion.
My last brush with "scary bonkers sharpening" was a stupid mistake - I flattened my old oil stone as is so often recommended. It's now really difficult to get a camber on a plane blade. It'll take years to get the hollow back :roll:

cheers
Jacob
PS freehand with oil stone not only gets things sharp but it does it quickly, just about as easy as sharpening a pencil.
This means you are more likely to be working with sharp tools more of the time - you can do it without thinking about it, as a little diversion from the main task.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Jacob,

Precisely my point, when I mentioned Japanese Chisels and so on. How did we manage before they reached our shores? Judging from the work in stately homes and various museums, quite well I would say!
Not that I might never try them out of course.

John :lol:

 

[ByronBlack]

Jacob - I printed out your article today and decided to give it ago. I had two oldish chisels that needed a little work.

The first one I did my way (freehand - but with flat bevels) and the second I tried with your method; the dipping.

My first impressions was - it's damn hard getting the dipping motion consistent as to produce a wire edge and keep the chisel moving around the stone, the second impression I had was that when a wire edge was presented (on both chisels) it was easier for me to remove this edge and go back and fourth to remove the reducing edge on the straight bevels than the round bevels as I didn't need to concern myself with the dipping motion; it seems an extra dexterous action to have to keep in mind.

My current freehand way is to lay the chisel flat at the desired angle, lock wrists and elbows on the right arm, and apply pressure with two or three left hand fingers at/near the cutting edge and then rock back and forth on my heels going in a cicular motion around the stone - I can get very accurate bevels this way and its fast.

I found your way took a little longer to get right, and the flat bevels were sharper. I tested both chisels in pine end-grain.

Maybe i'm doing something wrong, but i'll continue to try out your methods and see how I get on - any tips on keeping the dipping consistent would be most welcome.

John - certainly nothing wrong with either eastern/western chisels IMO - I actually prefer the japanese chisel because of the harder blade gives and holds a better edge for longer (IMO - I can only compare to Kirschens) and requires less flattening because of the hollow. But the easterns are more forgiving when prying, Workshop heaven have some 'black label' japanese bench chisels for about £10 each - well worth trying one out!

 

[javali]

ByronBlack - I guess that once you are used to your method of sharpening there is no point in changing to something else. Any method takes some practicem and comparing the results of a once of try of the round bevel with what you get after years of practice is a bit unfair. I have switched to the round bevel some time ago, and it has changed my life. The blade is as sharp as I get with the Veritas Mk-II, and it takes me much less time. I do not think I have ever had as many sharp tools as I have now. I still use the Veritas jig for bevel-up blades and some other cases, but most of the sharpening is free hand with round bevel.

Jacob - thanks.

 

[ByronBlack]

javali/jacob - alter ego?

BUT if I wanted to use the rounded bevel - how would you recommend to someone the process of getting a consistent 'dip' as you hone?