Sharpening on stones with a guide

[MarkDennehy]

Why not just hold the chisel at 30º? What does the jig doing that you can't do?

It's holding it at 30º. Which is what I can't do. I might well wind up learning how in short order, but right now I might as well use a bench grinder blindfolded, the end result wouldn't be much worse than my freehanding. And if I'm going to mangle a perfectly good chisel learning, I'd rather only mangle one made from mediocre steel bought from a car boot and save the good steel of the few I already have with a jig.

 

[MIGNAL]

The method that DW outlined earlier is about as simple as it gets, so easy that it's probably more difficult to actually mount a blade in a honing guide. I use a hand crank for the primary, it's slower than powered but it gives great control. Then it's straight to freehand on one single stone. Just crank the chisel/plane blade up a few degrees. Sometimes that stone is a 1200 diamond, sometimes it's a 8,000 waterstone. The waterstone when I need a really special edge, which isn't very often. One stone is all that is required though.
You don't need to do long sharpening strokes. I can sharpen on a stone that is 2" x 3". You are just doing enough to see the polished glint all across the blades edge. As soon as you see that, stop. When the blade is dull you go back to the stone. You might be able to do that 3 or 4 times but eventually you are going to have to return to the grinder. In which case you grind it until it stops only just short of your polished glint. It's the work on the hand crank that's the difficult bit (not that it's hard), not the freehand on the stone. It's a beautifully simple system that requires little in terms of tooling, yet it can grind away severe nicks and polish to a mirror finish. I know of a fiddle maker who has used this system for years, mainly working Spruce, Maple and Ebony. He's no slouch either, coz a fiddle costs the price of a small car.

 

[Jacob]

Why not just hold the chisel at 30º? What does the jig doing that you can't do?

It's holding it at 30º. Which is what I can't do. I might well wind up learning how in short order, but right now I might as well use a bench grinder blindfolded, the end result wouldn't be much worse than my freehanding. And if I'm going to mangle a perfectly good chisel learning, I'd rather only mangle one made from mediocre steel bought from a car boot and save the good steel of the few I already have with a jig.

Of course you can do it.
Visualise a right angle - 30º is a third of that. Or it's a gradient of 2 (along the slope) to one vertical. Or draw it out on a bit of card for comparison. It doesn't have to be accurate or a flat bevel - this is only woodwork tool sharpening we are talking about, not precision engineering.
It may take a few minutes to get it reasonably accurate if you've never done it before.

 

[MarkDennehy]

Of course you can do it.

I don't mean it's physically impossible; I mean I don't have the skill to do it yet.

 

[Racers]

Of course you can do it.

I don't mean it's physically impossible; I mean I don't have the skill to do it yet.

Don't listen to anyone who insists their way is best/easy, we are all different and if you want to use a jig then use on there is no shame, don't let the playground bullies influence you, do your own thing.

And stop quoting Jacob I have him on my ignore list so I don't see his "advice" any more.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

:lol:

 

[Bm101]

Tenner on ebay. Cider purchase. Because I don't have enough problems.
Just not sure where to crack the eggs into.

 

[swagman]

Was I the only member to request the photo and comments posted by Jacob, referencing the Nazi Salute, be deleted.

Stewie;

 

[Jacob]

Tenner on ebay. Cider purchase. Because I don't have enough problems.
Just not sure where to crack the eggs into.

I've never had a hand powered wheel. Isn't it a problem having one hand taken up with turning it? I imagine a big flywheel and treadle could be useful.

 

[MIGNAL]

You certainly don't need a treadle or flywheel. You can still overheat the steel, just a little less likely. The real difficulty is similar to rubbing your tummy whilst patting your head. A bit of practice and it becomes second nature, easy. I have a ruby wheel mounted on mine with one of the modern large adjustable guides.

 

[Bm101]

Wondered the same thing. As I said, cider purchase lol. My 'plan' is to use a Victorian Era labour saving device at first. My five year old son. It's only a 3" wheel so at best with a new polishing wheel it might be handy for a quick hone, that was the idea in principle at least. At worst it'll be fit only for sharpening my resolve to stop going on ebay when I'm having a drink. :-s

Edit: Sorry Mignal. Cross posted. I wasn't planning to look at wheels till it gets here.

 

[ED65]

Why not just hold the chisel at 30º? What does the jig doing that you can't do? Perhaps you hadn't noticed but the chisel even has a convenient little handle to hold it with - no need to bodge up another holding device!

Jacob, in your glee to jump on all things jig-related, you missed that I wasn't actually recommending it, I just posted it to illustrate something that Derek had previously mentioned, in case Mark would find it useful. It's not about whether you or I would find it useful.

End of last week I finished re-sharpening the two chisels I bought at last week's car boot and other than some initial grinding work on the worst of them (rounded corners) it was done freehand. But unlike some people ;-) I remain aware that not everyone can do this because I remember distinctly what it was like when I couldn't as it wasn't that long ago :lol:

A thread like this does naturally bring up the debate about jigged v. freehand sharpening and freehanders will naturally urge people to go that way, but it shouldn't rise to the level of haranguing the inexperienced.

 

[ED65]

...with a new polishing wheel...

Safety check: do you have this yet and is it a stone?

 

[Bm101]

Hi ED, no only ordered it last night mate. I was going to change the stone out in theory.

 

[Jacob]

......
End of last week I finished re-sharpening the two chisels I bought at last week's car boot and other than some initial grinding work on the worst of them (rounded corners) it was done freehand. But unlike some people ;-) I remain aware that not everyone can do this because I remember distinctly what it was like when I couldn't as it wasn't that long ago :lol: ....

I wouldn't grind by hand unless I had to - it's just hard work. But if doing it by hand it's probably quickest freehand with rounded bevel (but keeping it below 30º) on wet n dry 80 grit well flooded with white spirit,
I use a Sorby proedge instead, then hone by hand. Old knackered chisel would take just a minute or so.

PS If it's "haranguing the inexperienced" I see this as counter haranguing - they've been harangued into doubting their ability to do some very simple things and instead to buy a lot of kit and gadgets.
There's a clue in that nearly all sharpening threads (including this one) are about difficulties encountered whilst using a jig - the sensible solution in almost every case is to dump the jig.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Hand cranked grinders are great!

Power grinders are fast and effective, but even with considerable experience, you tend to approach them with some trepidation. There's the danger of overheating the tool, but there's also the surefire knowledge that if a finger contacts the wheel, or something jams where it shouldn't, the machine won't stop. Things get worse very fast indeed on a power grinder.

No such problems with a hand-crank. Merest hint of a problem, and you automatically stop cranking. Indeed, using one is a joy - there's no trepidation, and because they take metal off less quickly, progress can be monitored much more easily. You can change direction of wheel rotation very easily, too! Regrinding a tool takes a bit longer than it would on a power grinder, but it's much more relaxing - almost therapeutic.

-----

Just a thought about freehand honing - it's not difficult once you've got the hang of it, but getting the hang of producing consistent results quickly does take a bit of practice. Don't believe those who say any fool can do it instantly. It is worth persevering until you have some confidence with it, but also, there's absolutely no reason why you can't use a jig to help in the meantime if you want. Just do whatever suits you to keep edges sharp - and don't listen to anybody who says you're doing it all wrong.

 

[Rorschach]

I have a hand cranked grinder, it doesn't see a lot of use, prefer my 8" Axi slow grinder for most things, especially HSS lathe tools, however the hand crank is superb for working on very small tools and touching up screwdrivers and the like. I am pretty good at using it one handed and if I need really fine control I get the missus to crank it for me lol.

 

[Bm101]

Thanks guys. One thing I thought it might be handy for (don't question the logic...) is cambering the blades a little. Weirdly (?) I'd feel happier doing that on a wheel than by hand because I can see it if that makes sense. I'm happy using a jig, no worries at all. That some don't doesn't worry me in the slightest tbh. Each to their own. I'll get round to it at some point. Any suggestions as to what to replace the stone wheel with? Mignal suggested Ruby? Being a tiny 3" wheel might affect whats available maybe.
When I was young and a little more feral I used to help some greenwoodworkers do charcoal burning and bodging displays in the Greenfields at Glastonbury Festival. At some point every year this beardy fella would come by with his adapted bike, turn it upside down, replace the back wheel with a grinding stone and sharpen everyones tools to perfection. Very smart.

 

[Jacob]

Cambering, or honing an already cambered edge, is difficult to impossible with most jigs. Most jigs are useless unless the edge is dead straight, perfectly aligned in the jig, and the stone dead flat.

 

[Bm101]

Yeh, hence my point with the wheel Jacob. I did see a cambering attachment you could buy for the Veritas jig the other day. Even I laughed at that.