Sharpening Kirschen 1101 Chisels

[SVB]

Folks,

My father has purchased a set of Kirschen 1101 chisels and is after some help in preparing them for the first time.

I have a couple of questions.

1) They have a highly polished back and front face from the box. I am assuming this will still need to be given the 'back and bevel' treatment to ensure flatness even though this will remove the manufacturers polish?

2) From a quick look, they appear to have a protective lacquer finish. If this is the case, how do I remove it prior to sharpening?

3) any other tips / experience I should consider.

Thanks all as always.

Simon

 

[DaveL]

Hi Simon,

1) They have a highly polished back and front face from the box. I am assuming this will still need to be given the 'back and bevel' treatment to ensure flatness even though this will remove the manufacturers polish?

Your correct on both points, unfortunately a highly polished finish does not guarantee that the backs will be flat. :?

2) From a quick look, they appear to have a protective lacquer finish. If this is the case, how do I remove it prior to sharpening?

I would try cellulose thinners, it takes most of that sort of stuff off.

 

[wizer]

I have that set and have flattened the backs. They were pretty close to flat and didn't take long to sort out. However, I am suspicious of their edge holding ability. Tho, I've nothing to compare them to.

 

[Ironballs]

I also have those chisels and just took them straight to the stones, you do lose the polished look but they sharpen up pretty quickly. Be careful though, these chisels are very sensitive to moisture, they have to be left in a very dry place

 

[AlbertoA]

I agree on what others said before me... I used a stripper to clean them.

I would just add... if you like them polished, polish them.
A polishing compound spread on a piece of MDf or any flat surface will bring them back to a polished finish... but flat. A little oil whipped and than removed will help for rust, as also the polished surface will be less prone to corrosion. But you're not German and don't necessarily like polished chisels!

Keep in mind that in any chisel the first few millimeters (1-2) will have a slightly weaker steel due to the uneven hardening-tempering they take.
Alberto

 

[devonwoody]

I sharpen those chisels on 4 grades of wet and dry (stuck down on a glass plate ) and they come up very sharp, I did take the shine of the first inch of each blade on the flat side.

 

[bugbear]

However, I am suspicious of their edge holding ability.

No chisel holds an edge as long as one would hope

BugBear

 

[woodbloke]

These are reputed to be very good chisels, though iIrc there's not too much of a bevel ground down the sides...not sure. As others have said, highly polished doesn't mean the backs are flat, just that they look nice in the box so a back flattening regime will need to be undertaken to remove all the grinding marks and also to flatten the backs.
I use a sort of 'scary sharp' method by gluing various grades of w/d paper to a float glass plate 50mm wide and working down thru' them finishing off with something like a bit of 600g. If you go about it in the right way, the backs will end up concave which is better than convex...to be avoided at all costs. Pressure should always be over the top of the blade, never touch the handle in case you lift it :evil: ...as I did once If you were to start of with say 220g paper it ought not to take too long to get them into good shape - Rob

 

[matthewwh]

Polished surfaces corrode like mad at any points of imperfection causing pitting. Brushed finish surfaces on the other hand tend to corrode evenly, creating a powdery surface rust that is much more easily removed.

It follows that the only polished surfaces that you want on a chisel are those that you actually need; i.e. last few mm adjacent to the edge.

I have recently been experimenting with 3M 100 micron lapping film. Using thick MDF as a substrate you get an acceptably flat surface for coarse grinding things that need to be flat.

However, using a thinner sheet enables you to produce a crowned surface ideal for introducing a very slight lengthwise hollow to the back of chisels. By taping a length of gardeners wire (with the plastic removed) to the back and then screwing the thin sheet to a thick sheet at the corners you introduce just enough curvature to ensure that when you move to finer grades on a dead flat surface, the sharp edge will contact the honing media first whilst at the same time not introducing enough hollow to effect the accuracy of the chisel.

Hope this helps!

 

[Ironballs]

Matthew

you're right, I had left these chisels in their box in the garage before and had come back to them to find rust and pitting, took a lot of work to clean off. Then put one of those little rust prevention capsules in the box, seemed to be working, however went back to them the other day and found that the box almost seals itself into two halves and the side without the rust prevention had rust with pitting on the chisels. Really annoyed.

So binned the box and the chisels now live in the tool box. A combination of that and the square edge on the sides mean that I would hesitate to recommend them and I will look elsewhere when I eventually replace them - though that could be a long time as I have a lot of steel to work through

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

No chisel holds an edge as long as one would hope

BugBear

I realised the other day that, in the three years I have owned Blue Spruce chisels, I have yet to grind them. In fact, over the past 12 months all I have used to keep them sharp is a strop. They are used for dovetails and detail work, rather than bench work, but still get used at least once or twice each week.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[devonwoody]

I have had my K chisels around 4 years but this last winter I forgot to bring them indoors for the season, and I have some rust around, but it is about 3" up the blade so I dont think I shall worry too much.

 

[wizer]

I'll join that club, my Kirschens rusted with heavy pitting.

 

[NeilO]

Listening to all these stories about how bad these kirschen (two cherries) rust, I`m glad on my last visit to Axminster to buy said same I changed my mind , and eventually walked out with a nice five piece Lie-nielsen set

As for the leather roll that comes with them, I dont think it will get much use as a chisel roll ( did price them up separately, and worked out you are paying some 20p for the leather roll) but I may cut it down and use it for a strop ( sacrilege, I hear you shouting)

 

[woodbloke]

I've just had a look at the K1101 chisels and would have to revise my opinion of them. I think there are others on the market that represent better value - Rob

 

[Ironballs]

Certainly compared to my set of AI dovetail chisels they come a distant second, but they do sharpen up well and hold a good edge. I think if Kirschen took away the polished finish and added more of a bevel these wood be great chisels - they're sturdily built for example, but useless for dovetails. Which is where their skew chisels come in handy.

The mortice chisels they do are excellent however

 

[woodbloke]

Certainly compared to my set of AI dovetail chisels they come a distant second, but they do sharpen up well and hold a good edge. I think if Kirschen took away the polished finish and added more of a bevel these wood be great chisels - they're sturdily built for example, but useless for dovetails.

I was playing around with a 25mm K1101 last night (amongst others [-( ) and it's not best chisel I've ever come across. The back was flat and it was reasonably easy to sharpen using the Eclipse guide, but I don't like the high polish on the blade and as Damian has said, the high bevel on the sides makes it useless for dovetails. I also dislike the Continental style handles, 'specially this one as it's been pretty roughly made and then dunked in some sort of gloopy lacquer - Rob

 

[Aled Dafis]

I was playing around with a 25mm K1101 last night (amongst others [-( )

If that's supposed to be a hint at your new toyls, then I'm intrigued. Pleeeeaaase tell us more.

Cheers

Aled

 

[woodbloke]

Can't [-( :-# - Rob

 

[woodbloke]

I was playing around with a 25mm K1101 last night (amongst others [-( )

If that's supposed to be a hint at your new toyls, then I'm intrigued. Pleeeeaaase tell us more.

Cheers

Aled

...but as you've asked Aled, I've got one of these:

bad boys to play around with (plus a few more) - Rob