Sharpening Jig - What do you think?

[TRITON]

I'd an idea for a sharpening jig,
Utilizing a drill, to turn circular motion(I forget the term) into linear action. Drill powers a wheel, which in turn converts it into the linear action by way of an actuating arm, the end of this arm a holder for chisel or plane blade is attached.
The action moves back and forward over a sharpening stone, or more likely float glass and emery paper. Basically doing what you'd normally do by hand only the drill replaces the human.

I came up with this after spending hours going back and forth,back and forth sharpening up a load of chisels one day. I thought It would be better as my arms were getting rather tired

 

[Jacob]

I'd an idea for a sharpening jig,
Utilizing a drill, to turn circular motion(I forget the term) into linear action. Drill powers a wheel, which in turn converts it into the linear action by way of an actuating arm, the end of this arm a holder for chisel or plane blade is attached.
The action moves back and forward over a sharpening stone, or more likely float glass and emery paper. Basically doing what you'd normally do by hand only the drill replaces the human.

I came up with this after spending hours going back and forth,back and forth sharpening up a load of chisels one day. I thought It would be better as my arms were getting rather tired

Sounds good! Start with the Triton Mk 1, then the Mk 2 with added brass knobs, then the Mk3 with micro adjustment and solid bronze thingies....loadsamoney!

 

[JobandKnock]

Jacob - we're twins!!

in that case you can have my seat on the tandem...

 

[JobandKnock]

I'd an idea for a sharpening jig,
Utilizing a drill, to turn circular motion(I forget the term) into linear action. Drill powers a wheel, which in turn converts it into the linear action by way of an actuating arm, the end of this arm a holder for chisel or plane blade is attached.

To really please Jacob it would need to be steam powered.

Of course you could always get yourself one of those newfangled clean green power devices where the hand provides the cranking motion, the stone revolves and the iron is moved back and forth across the stone:



Just love that music...

 

[TRITON]

One of the butchers shops i worked in(first actually, where I started my apprenticeship) had a similar grinder but foot powered. I loved that grinder and even got a finer wheel to put on it for the shop, made the boss happy as the one on it was pretty rough so we only used it for rough grinding before honing on an oilstone.
Although not shown on this one they had a bracket on the top to attach to the side of a bench. Theres on on ebay currently, priced at £65, but he wants £35 postage too which is a joke and a rip off. Wouldnt cost any more than 15, maybe 20 quid to send.
I am tempted by it

 

[city17]

Does anyone actually have any feedback on the jig itself? So far we've spotted two flaws: different angles if using different height stones, and the blade being stuck on one specific part of the stone, causing grooves.

For all the discussion here, I'm not sure if people (Jacob&Jacob) just dislike sharpening jigs like the Veritas one in general, or see some other faults with this particular one. Would be interested in some more specific criticism of this tool.

 

[Jonm]

Does anyone actually have any feedback on the jig itself? ............. Would be interested in some more specific criticism of this tool.

As we were told at school, you get zero marks for perfectly answering a question which was not asked. But then this is not an exam. Anything to do with sharpening seems to be incredibly controversial. Having seen some of the work on here there are some incredibly skilled people who no doubt have spent years honing their skills and have no need of jigs. Their advice is very interesting and helpful and I have picked up a few tips from this discussion, but they do not answer your question.

Hopefully you will get some more comments specifically about the jig.

 

[Jacob]

...

Hopefully you will get some more comments specifically about the jig.

The silence says it all - nobody can see any point in this jig.
It looks nice though - matt black with brass knobs.
PS Perhaps a bit hasty - had another look.
If I'm right it has one obvious advantage over all the conventional jigs in that if you put any pressure on the tool it doesn't lift the edge off the stone! I've aways thought of this as the main weakness of jigs and makes them such a PITA to use - basically the wheels are in the wrong place they should be in front of the edge instead of behind.
I amazed that nobody has come up with a better design to counter this fundamental weakness - perhaps no motivation when they are such a cash cow.
Maybe this one does it?
Still don't need it myself!

 

[Ttrees]

One tip for sharpening, likely one which cannot be argued with is..
Looking at the back/face tomato/tomato
and seeing if it's the same profile with no wire edge after a lick.
This is easier with a whiteboard hung on the wall I find, as it really helps to see the burr,
and tells you where you should be leaning.

Might be worth trying, if the guide goes amiss.
All the best
Tom

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

I never knew I needed sharpening jigs until I discovered woodworking forums years ago (said tongue in cheek, with eyes rolling).

 

[Jacob]

I never knew I needed sharpening jigs until I discovered woodworking forums years ago (said tongue in cheek, with eyes rolling).

Well yes - though for me it was pre internet magazines. Then it took me about 10 years to discover i didn't need one and I haven't used one since.

 

[D_W]

in that case you can have my seat on the tandem...

Yeah, I thought for a second that I may be jumping the gun as when you showed up, you guys did have a little bit of a brothers from another mother thing going.

I don't want to steal your seat. Especially if it's behind jacob - who knows what he ate before the ride!

 

[D_W]

Seriously on the actual jig - the eclipse guide is really the only guide to have if you're going to sharpen things and eventually get away from the jig (which is the goal unless you are one of the few folks who may sharpen one or two perfectly straight things - e.g., if you're the type who does everything with power tools and perhaps carry an apron plane).

The jig pictured reminds me of the pinnacle jig that was sold here for a long time by woodcraft:
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2007/07/01/pinnacle-honing-guide-review
What I don't remember is many people using it or saying they liked it. The "Repeatability" is a tax in that you have to set it properly, and it's not harder to sharpen than it is to set jigs properly - at least after a little bit.

What's important is that in no matter what you do, you'll have far more success if the finish step is separated by angle from the previous steps. In general:

* the grind removes most of the metal, honing of a bevel prior to finish honing adjusts any issues with squareness or matching soles, and is where you add camber for most irons (add on the grind on jack planes)
* and finishing the edge at a stepped up angle makes sure the scratches at the edge are actually fine scratches.

If there is anything irregular about an iron (like in an old moving fillister or even in some modern plane irons where the sides aren't parallel or maybe the cap iron isn't, but it doesn't matter that the cap iron isn't because it adjusts fine in the plane), then the jig become a tax, and you end up running around looking for tools only involving those perfectly machined. It's a dilemma that doesn't need to be.

(and I started with a jig, like many - I think it's good to start with a jig and a method like charlesworth's to ensure you know what sharp is). The cheap scope will help you see that the fine scratches get all the way to the edge - and you'll find quickly that unfinished edges are the cause of 99% of what you're doing and figure out how to make finishing them easy rather than guessing if you're getting things done). IT doesnt' take long, but it can if you don't want to look at the edge with some magnification and guess on "microchipping" or many other reasons people will tell you that an iron doesn't hold up. Guesses are often wrong, and most people start with "when I'm shooting, it's the arrow and not the archer" - it's generally the opposite.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi all, I just came across this sharpening jig on Ali: Sharpening Jig

View attachment 117956

It's a very interesting concept, as it seems to improve on (from what I've seen and used) the existing sharpening jigs like the Veritas Mk II. On this jig, everything is fixed and the only motion you can make is back and forth over a linear rail.

Even on great jigs like the Veritas one you have to apply quite a bit of pressure still, and you could pivot it sideways slightly accidentally (although rare).

I'm kind of tempted to order it (as I'm quite a lazy sharpener), but I can see one flaw, which is that you can't raise or lower the height of the bed. This means that you'd have to measure the angle every time as the height of different stones is different, meaning a different angle.

Wondering if there's some sharpening experts here who can give their opinion on this jig?

This jig will only work with diamond stones. It appears to reply on a parallel surface. There does not appear to be a mechanism for adjusting for an out-of-parallel stone.

It is a variation of the Sharpening Sled ...

... and the Pinnacle Honing Guide ...

Some ones attempt to find a gullible buyer.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[TRITON]

For all the discussion here, I'm not sure if people (Jacob&Jacob) just dislike sharpening jigs like the Veritas one in general, or see some other faults with this particular one. Would be interested in some more specific criticism of this tool.

The entire sharpening process has always been an emotive issue, with camps relating to hand sharpening or machine sharpening.
Personally I'm in the machine sharpening camp, but then there have been times where I had to sharpen blades on a very regular basis rather than one every 3 months.
Maybe thats it, with the hobbists lauding the benefits of hand sharpening because they dont have to do it that regularly, and not in area where time equals money and time spent sharpening is time lost to more important work, like earning an income.

I'd go with the above criticism on it in that its going to wear a grove in anything other than a diamond stone. I'm all for any sort of jig that presents the blade at the correct angle and makes life easier, but I see the flaw as pointed out in this.
Other than that I like the idea of it, holds the blade steady, and what looks like maybe a ballbearing track to keep everything rigid and on track but doing away with the possibility of presenting the blade at too steep an angle.

see some other faults with this particular one

I think those two as pointed out are about as much of a critique as is needed for this jig.

 

[Jacob]

......
Maybe thats it, with the hobbists lauding the benefits of hand sharpening because they dont have to do it that regularly, and not in area where time equals money and time spent sharpening is time lost to more important work, like earning an income.
.....

No it's the other way around. Freehand sharpening is quicker and easier. Just the occasional dab on a power machine if there's a nick or other metal work required.

 

[D_W]

Well I haven't been deluded into hand planing tree trunks by way of "dimensioning" if that's what you mean.

I've seen your work, Jacob - I got it. You make the stuff that was dimensioned look like tree trunks instead.

 

[TRITON]

No it's the other way around. Freehand sharpening is quicker and easier. Just the occasional dab on a power machine if there's a nick or other metal work required.

Ahh, but I'm inherently lazy , and tbh pretty rubbish at holding a correct angle for hand sharpening Anything that makes life easier and removes the tediousness of the job is a plus point from this camp

 

[city17]

This jig will only work with diamond stones. It appears to reply on a parallel surface. There does not appear to be a mechanism for adjusting for an out-of-parallel stone.

It is a variation of the Sharpening Sled ...

... and the Pinnacle Honing Guide ...

Some ones attempt to find a gullible buyer.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Good point Derek, that's another flaw of this design. The Pinnacle one seems to use the same principle, just a different type of rail that the jig moves over.

Seems like potentially this idea of having the linear rail underneath is a good one, but the three flaws mentioned so far make it quite a limited tool.

In theory an improved version could be made where the bed could be lowered and raised, and angled to the side, but having to change those settings every time you put in a new stone seems like quite a hassle.

 

[Jacob]

Far be it from me to find anything good to say about a honing jig but it isn't a sled, it is different in principle from the Pinnacle and it is adjustable for different stones and angles, up to a point.
Sled or not sled - this jig has the tool being sharpened riding on the stone, but the frame it's fixed in prevent it being tilted back because it rides underneath. I guess there'd be a low friction PTFE pad in there too.
So in principle it's an improvement. In practice probably not, it looks a bugger to adjust for starters