What improvements do you think i could make to my jig?

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Surely the jig is effectively a micro adjustable fence in itself and you don't need the other fence?
If I had a good enough blade I'd simply cut veneers between fence and blade. I'd set it against gauge marks on the workpiece and not need to set it again until I wanted to change the thickness.
Hello,

Micro adjusters on the rip-fence are great, but do not allow for the lost kerf from the previous cut. Advancing the micro adjuster for 1.5mm veneers would also need the kerf to be added, and who knows what that is exactly, since tooth pitch, blade thickness and different manufacturers produce different kerf.

This jig sets the thickness and automatically takes into account the kerf, whatever blade is fitted. The reference face of the timber used, that bears againt the rip fence, is always maintained, since the veneers are cut on the other side.

Mike.
 
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Hello,

Micro adjusters on the fence are great, but do not allow for the lost kerf from the previous cut. Advancing the micro adjuster for 1.5mm veneers would also need the kerf to be added, and who knows what that is exactly, since tooth pitch, blade thickness and different manufacturers produce different kerf.

This jig sets the thickness and automatically takes into account the kerf, whatever blade is fitted. The reference face of the timber used, that bears againt the rip fence, is always maintained, since the veneers are cut on the other side.

Mike.
Cutting between fence and blade sets the thickness and the saw kerf takes care of itself.
What Elisha has made is a micro adjustable fence - which would be handy if you were cutting many different thicknesses.
 
Cutting between fence and blade sets the thickness and the saw kerf takes care of itself.
What Elisha has made is a micro adjustable fence - which would be handy if you were cutting many different thicknesses.
Hello,

Just to be absolutely clear, the timber is cut to thickness on the outside of the blade, not between the blade and the fence. Elisha's jig allows for the kerf in this instance, which the standard fence does not do.

Mike.
 
Hello,

........Elisha's jig allows for the kerf in this instance, which the standard fence does not do.

Mike.
You don't need to allow for the kerf with the standard fence - it takes care of itself.
Have to say I've dimensioned tons of stuff between fence and blade - usually components bigger than a veneer, but given the right blade, a stack of veneers is perfectly possible and no problem.
But I wouldn't want to put Elisha off with her micro adjustable fence design, it could have its uses, keep up the good work!
I don't think you need both fences however - your kit could sit on the left of the blade and would need to accommodate the width of the kerf in the adjustment. Simplest way to do this might be to have a spacer the width of the kerf, to slip in to the works somehow, each time you adjust. Or just to note that each adjustment would need to be desired thickness plus kerf width.
Or simplest of all - to incorporate the kerf thickness in to the design/calibration of the turning adjuster. e.g. one click could be 1mm thickness plus 2mm kerf = 3mm
 
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@Elisha Nichols All I can say is make sure no one steals your idea if your intention is to market it.

You've done all the research and design, but have put it all on the internet for anyone to take and make their own.

I speak from experience, as all of my research was plagiarised by a lecturer in conservation at Zagreb university.
 
Hi Elisha, I think I get what you have done - by using the T-slot you locate your jig relative to the blade and by perhaps having a slot cut across the jig into which a cross-piece affixed to the yellow plastic cross-slide you keep the jig parallel to the slot. Then by loosening the black knob you can set the initial cut and then dial-in fixed offsets to that at-will. - Really neat!!
I guess one thing I would suggest is to actually machine the yellow slide making it an inverted T so that the jig is positively held within the slot - you could do this using a mill or as I did using a spindle molder on some hard Maple - I did similar in a thread posted here
BTW if I'm not mistaken that is a Kity 613 bandsaw - which is what I have used since new some 30y ago !!
 
One major flaw I see is that you always want the cut timber to be between blade and fence, which is the opposite to what you’ve got in your picture.

i don’t follow what you are saying. could you please try to explain again.
all of it?
 
Hello,

Let me try to explain why this jig is a good idea.

If I wanted to cut a series of sequential veneers from a thick board I would begin by planing and thicknessing the board, making sure that there was at least one edge square to the face side. If I ran that face against a tall fence to slice off a 1.5mm veneer, that reference face is now gone. Do I resurface that face so it is good to go against the fence again. That loses material which I don't want to do for economy, but more importantly a good book-match becomes less viable, since the grain can move and change quite a bit as leaves are removed from the board.

I could just run the newly sawn side against the fence and the next cut probably wouldn't be too bad. However, successive cuts become less and less reliable from cumulatively exaggerating ripples and wobbles from previous cuts. Such a tall rip done over and over, often takes the board out of square, too, so stability from the edge that runs on the table is lost. That makes ripping errors worse.

For example; I recently wanted to make curved lams for some dining chair top rails. I needed 10 veneers for each lam to give me the finished thickness I wanted and the boards were thick enough to make them all, IF I didn't have to reface the surface that ran against the fence. In any case, I just wanted to reassemble the stack right off the saw to keep the grain on the edges from running out too much. After about 4 rips, with the veneer against the fence, the leaves were just getting too much out of true and I had to face the board on the planer. I ended up only getting 9 veneers and not the nicest surfaces to glue together, either. I ended up thickness sanding them, which made the stack thinner still and I had to add more veneers from another board. The runout along the edge was unacceptable to me, so I ended up making the veneers cut from the offside of the fence. This meant that the good face and edge was always against the fence, and any slight ripping errors in the newly sawn face could not have any effect on the next veneer to be cut. The chore was having to move the fence each time with more or less guessing the kerf that had been lost. There was slight variations in veneer thicknesses, which meant the finished thickness of the curved lams was not predictable. I had 6 chairs to do, so ultimately trying to get all the rails equal became difficult.

What Elisha's device will accomplish will be consistency of the veneers, as kerf allowance will be set and repeatable each time (I had 60 veneers to cut for the job above!) It will also means a better glueing surface, so the stack could be glued more or less straight from the saw. (No more than a card scraper needed) It will reduce waste by virtue of the fact there will be fewer duds and there will be no needless thickness sanding of the leaves nor resurfacing the board to provide a new reference face to bear against the rip fence.

Obviously, other people work in different ways, and if this device is not for them, then fair enough. What is not helpful, is questioning the validity of the jig, because those people do not have a use for it. Elisha requested some feedback about improving the jig, not querying whether the jig has a purpose at all. Many years ago, another student asked for some ideas for an A level Product design project. A jig to do precisely what Elisha's product does was suggested by several posters on here. It most certainly would have applications for some woodworkers and I can certainly see a use for it.

Mike.
 
Hello,

Let me try to explain why this jig is a good idea.

If I wanted to cut a series of sequential veneers from a thick board I would begin by planing and thicknessing the board, making sure that there was at least one edge square to the face side.
Cutting between the fence and the blade: ideally your fence should be as wide as the board (false fence?) and your first cut (or more if necessary) will give you a face parallel to the blade.
All subsequent cuts ditto and will be same thickness, as long as you have a good blade with a wide enough kerf to avoid having the blade bind and deviate.
 
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Hello,

Let me try to explain why this jig is a good idea.

If I wanted to cut a series of sequential veneers from a thick board I would begin by planing and thicknessing the board, making sure that there was at least one edge square to the face side. If I ran that face against a tall fence to slice off a 1.5mm veneer, that reference face is now gone. Do I resurface that face so it is good to go against the fence again. That loses material which I don't want to do for economy, but more importantly a good book-match becomes less viable, since the grain can move and change quite a bit as leaves are removed from the board.

I could just run the newly sawn side against the fence and the next cut probably wouldn't be too bad. However, successive cuts become less and less reliable from cumulatively exaggerating ripples and wobbles from previous cuts. Such a tall rip done over and over, often takes the board out of square, too, so stability from the edge that runs on the table is lost. That makes ripping errors worse.

For example; I recently wanted to make curved lams for some dining chair top rails. I needed 10 veneers for each lam to give me the finished thickness I wanted and the boards were thick enough to make them all, IF I didn't have to reface the surface that ran against the fence. In any case, I just wanted to reassemble the stack right off the saw to keep the grain on the edges from running out too much. After about 4 rips, with the veneer against the fence, the leaves were just getting too much out of true and I had to face the board on the planer. I ended up only getting 9 veneers and not the nicest surfaces to glue together, either. I ended up thickness sanding them, which made the stack thinner still and I had to add more veneers from another board. The runout along the edge was unacceptable to me, so I ended up making the veneers cut from the offside of the fence. This meant that the good face and edge was always against the fence, and any slight ripping errors in the newly sawn face could not have any effect on the next veneer to be cut. The chore was having to move the fence each time with more or less guessing the kerf that had been lost. There was slight variations in veneer thicknesses, which meant the finished thickness of the curved lams was not predictable. I had 6 chairs to do, so ultimately trying to get all the rails equal became difficult.

What Elisha's device will accomplish will be consistency of the veneers, as kerf allowance will be set and repeatable each time (I had 60 veneers to cut for the job above!) It will also means a better glueing surface, so the stack could be glued more or less straight from the saw. (No more than a card scraper needed) It will reduce waste by virtue of the fact there will be fewer duds and there will be no needless thickness sanding of the leaves nor resurfacing the board to provide a new reference face to bear against the rip fence.

Obviously, other people work in different ways, and if this device is not for them, then fair enough. What is not helpful, is questioning the validity of the jig, because those people do not have a use for it. Elisha requested some feedback about improving the jig, not querying whether the jig has a purpose at all. Many years ago, another student asked for some ideas for an A level Product design project. A jig to do precisely what Elisha's product does was suggested by several posters on here. It most certainly would have applications for some woodworkers and I can certainly see a use for it.

Mike.
I rip then run it over the surfacer, rip again and surface, that way there’s only one face to clean up and there’s always a straight reference against the fence.
 
I rip then run it over the surfacer, rip again and surface, that way there’s only one face to clean up and there’s always a straight reference against the fence.
Hello,

I would then refer you to the reasons why I don't always want to do that, i.e. waste form the surfacing between each veneer losing numbers of veneer from a given board and the bigger grain miss-match when book-matching due to removing more material than necessary. These things are important to me. Part of the reason for sawing veneer is to maximise the yield from a nice board, not make chips for the dust collector.

Should Elisha's jig be successful, would you continue to take the board to the planer between every cut, wasting time and material, or just use her jig?

Isn't that what is referred to as a 'no brainer'?

Mike.
 
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I'd do them sawn both sides, just whack them through one setting of one fence with a fine enough blade, until you have enough. Finish after you've made the thing and stuck on the veneer. Not that it's something I've done very often I confess, but often enough to know how to do it IMHO. :unsure:
 
Also, by publishing it on this forum, I believe you've signed away your copyright.
Sadly, yes. Officially, now it is in a public domain it would be extremely hard to get a patent / protect the idea ( i have had guidance from a chartered patent agent in the past and this was a point he made strongly )
You could have the thread deleted and hope it doesn't show up in a search, or that anyone stole the idea. Legal action for patents is generally very costly and mostly fruitless ( so i was told )


Anyway, onto the jig.... essentially both the jig and original fence need to be moved for each cut. If you were doing veneers ( i never have ) i would think it would be an acceptable part of the process and i also get the other suggestion of surfacing the face after each pass.... if the resulting blade cut is resonable, a light skim on the planer wouldnt loose much.
Either way, worth pursuing but seriously, look into the protection quick and consider deleting the thread 🧐
 
Some good advice here. He adjusts for the drift of the blade. A blade with a wide enough kerf in a reasonably well set up band saw shouldn't need this, but useful to bear in mind just in case.
He also passes the block through the thicknesser, which would be better than passing it over the top where the thicknessing might not be so accurate.
If you pass thin stuff through a thicknesser it helps to have a non slip PTFE bed and very sharp blades, so it doesn't get just picked up and chewed to bits.
https://timothycoleman.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Bandsaw-Your-Own-Veneer.pdf
Useful tip for Elisha - if designing anything it's essential to research other solutions to the same problem. It's very unlikely that you would come up with an original solution, don't let this put you off and anyway copy copy copy is the basis of good design and always has been!
 
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The problem I see in your idea of cutting veneers with a bandsaw is saw scratch and speed of cut there is a system,From the USA that clamps to a bandsaw set on rollers with a vernier calliper type adjustment and they even comment that the flow speed is most important, the way to control speed is in one way by using a weight pulling the wood through at a constant SLOW speed . I’ve achieved that but Still found that the surface cut was not good enough for a good glue joint. To get something that can be glued on both sides as a sandwich ie a fillet or alternative colour slice in segmental rings for turning you need to plane both faces with a thicknesser
 
Hello,

There is something that needs addressing with the jig. The cam device used to set the cut thickness works from a datum that has been set to the saw and blade that is currently being worked on. There is no way to set a new datum, if the blade is changed to a different one, (narrower or wider kerf) or indeed if the device is to be used on a different saw.

The zero face on the setting cam butts up to the edge of the sliding 'window', which at the moment is fixed. If there was a movable abutment there, it could be adjusted then locked off, to make a new datum, as required. The cam thickness adjuster would then work just as before.

Mike.
 
The problem I see in your idea of cutting veneers with a bandsaw is saw scratch and speed of cut there is a system,From the USA that clamps to a bandsaw set on rollers with a vernier calliper type adjustment and they even comment that the flow speed is most important, the way to control speed is in one way by using a weight pulling the wood through at a constant SLOW speed . I’ve achieved that but Still found that the surface cut was not good enough for a good glue joint. To get something that can be glued on both sides as a sandwich ie a fillet or alternative colour slice in segmental rings for turning you need to plane both faces with a thicknesser
Not if you've got a Woodmaster CT, and a saw up to tensioning it!
*other carbide tipped blades are available
Some of John Teneyck's post's (his pics aren't held hostage by Creekers paywall)
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?299145-Slicing-Veneer-with-the-Amazing-Woodmaster-CT
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?280590-The-Incredible-Woodmaster-CT
 

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