Sharpening for beginners

[steve355]

Agree with above, for my first couple of years I had every gadget and gizmo known to man. Now I have an India stone, and Arkansas stone and a strop.

You just have to understand what you are trying to achieve.

The most exquisite furniture and joinery ever made was made with traditional tools sharpened on locally available stones.

 

[Jacob]

Some great responses above, thank you. I will be studying all your suggestions and the videos etc later today and trying them out.
I'm really not sure about hard or soft metal in my chisels, but one is at least 60 years old and the others are more modern but cheap and I've not got a good edge on any of them . Been trying to sharpen a small swiss army penknife blade without success.
I'm enjoying woodworking as my retirement hobby. Previously I only did it for DIY odd jobs around the house. I'm now making some very pleasing stuff on my lathe, using carbide, so no sharpening needed, but I want to improve my skills and branch out into other projects. I realise that having sharp tools is the key to my progression, so I really need to gain sharpening skills first.

Soft metal sharpens more easily, blunts more quickly. Not the issue.

 

[steve355]

Peter - just try to picture in your mind the shape of the edge when applying different stones at different angles.

Imagine if you just had one stone.

Etc.

Soon gizmos become redundant.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Been trying to sharpen a small swiss army penknife blade without success.

I'vw never managed a decent edge on one - useless things.

 

[Amplidyne]

I sighed at your description of how your hard work hasn’t brought forth an edge. Not your fault at all! It’s the pundits of these ridiculous stones in their thousands of grit.
For hundreds of years and as is still the case the people who have made all the furniture you see only ever sharpened to about 400 on a combination stone, maybe if they needed to they would strop a bit as well. As a commercial bespoke furniture maker that’s all I have ever done, and @Jacob and @Amplidyne say the same.

It really is quite simple and inexpensive, a Norton India combination stone will cost about £40? Plus a little thin oil. Put the sloping edge of the blade on the oiled stone and then lift it a fraction till the oil squeezes out then rub up and down at that same angle with medium downward force, after 10? rubs up and down feel the back edge and you should feel a roughness at the edge, this is the wire edge, to remove that put the back of the blade flat onto the stone and rub up and down just a few time with pressure keeping the blade flat on the stone, the wire will either have dropped off or is ready to, once it has gone that’s about it, I then have a habit of stropping it on my jeans but probably not needed tbh.
We are only cutting wood. It’s not Rocket science and as I’ve described will be quite sharp enough.
A picture to prove my point and credentials.

I missed out that I used to strop on a piece of leather drive belt dressed with fine valve grinding paste. Get an edge that will shave hairs off the back of your hand.
I generally use a fine-ish diamond stone now, and strop on what's handy, but I don't do as much woodwork these days, and what I do is softwood.

We were shown how to sharpen in woodwork class as boys.

Personally I think that there is a market that has grown up around sharpening, and all the gadgets and techniques, and sharpening has almost become an end in itself rather than a simple means.

My advice to beginners is to learn to sharpen by hand without any guides, jigs or multiple levels of grit. As said, an India oilstone or a good quality fine diamond stone will get you there. It will save you loads of time to be doing what you actually want to do. Woodworking.

That's a very nice piece of furniture incidentally.

 

[Jacob]

I'vw never managed a decent edge on one - useless things.

I use a normal knife steel. Just a light touch a little and often.

 

[deema]

I’ve helped a few people to sharpen, there are a few things that usually are the root cause of difficulties.
First off there has been superb advice by @Jacob and @Cabinetman take it to heart. Sharpening isn’t difficult.

The first problem that usually causes problems is that the chisel (let’s start with that) has after repeated tries to sharpen developed a convex slope on the chamfer. This has been caused by rocking when trying to hand sharpen. This makes trying to get it sharp very difficult, as once it’s convex, you will rock even more and little of the effort is going to grind the tip.

The back isn’t flat at the edge. Ignore all the suggestions of getting the chisel back flat along its entire length. It just needs to be flat where you’re sharpening.

Thirdly trying to sharpen with a very narrow chisel: which usually causes side to side rocking and further convex shaping.

So where to start. First off a black sharpie is your friend. Cover the chamfer and about 12mm of the back of a chisel that’s around 20 to 25mm wide. Place chisel on course media and try to flatten the back about 12mm from the edge you want to sharpen. Give it about four or five rubs and then see what’s happening. The black will have worn away where you’re touching the media. You now have a guide to see what you’re doing. If you push back and forth in just one direction you will create a convex surface, so keep changing the direction, it will also cut faster. Re jacket and keep checking.
Now when you’ve achieved a nice shiny surface about 2mm back from the edge, all the way across, repeat with higher grits, blacked and check you get a shine across the edge. The back is now ready.

Now, blacken the chamfer. Using the roughest media and sharpen by placing the heel on the media, rotating until the chamfer is down on the media and pull back, lift off and look at what you’ve done. If it’s concave you will see it. Repeat, only dragging back, never push and pull when learning, you will cause it to become convex. Continue until you have the full chamfer shiny right to the tip. Check for a wire bead, quick few strokes on the back to remove the wire, and rinse and repeat with higher grits.

To get it to cut hair it needs stropping. But it’s not necessary for use. Be careful it’s now very sharp!

 

[worker]

Peter

I will chip in and encourage you to keep trying. Start with the coarse stone until you get a burr across the entire edge and move onto the next one.

Once you've gotten the hang of sharpening with guides, I would gently encourage you to try freehand sharpening. It will be a struggle at first but I am sure you will get there.

Like yourself, when I started out I used a honing guide. This was a big help at the beginning but a hindrance later on. Perhaps controversial, but I no longer bother with micro bevel either. I found myself slowing increasing the angle until it would no longer cut.

I have also moved onto a single oilstone (no idea of grit but it came in a nice usermade box and is very fine), using 3-in-1 as lapping fluid, and strop for my regular sharpening, and keep my diamond stone and honing guide for when I need more precision, e.g. restoring a plane.

 

[Doug B]

I've sent you a D M @Peter907

 

[mark w]

Ignore the rubbish about honing guides you've read here so far, they aren't complicated and ensure repeatable accurate results. I can sharpen freehand, that is how I was taught but I choose to use a honing guide for the reasons I just mentioned. Some people have recommended carborundum stones which are fine for ordinary steel but if your blades are A2 or similar then your diamond plates are an advantage.

 

[Jacob]

Ignore the rubbish about honing guides you've read here so far, they aren't complicated and ensure repeatable accurate results. I can sharpen freehand, that is how I was taught but I choose to use a honing guide for the reasons I just mentioned. Some people have recommended carborundum stones which are fine for ordinary steel but if your blades are A2 or similar then your diamond plates are an advantage.

Yes and a good reason for not buying A2 steel tools!
Seems to me that the search for "better" steels is itself a byproduct of modern sharpening systems; they are so fiddly and difficult that if you manage to sharpen anything at all you really want the edge to last.
Made more difficult with A2 steel of course; difficulty seems to be the objective, and you get drawn into a spiral of increasing difficulty with increasingly expensive solutions, such as this one, made with magical PMT-V11 steel.

 

[mark w]

Yes and a good reason for not buying A2 steel tools!
Seems to me that the search for "better" steels is itself a byproduct of modern sharpening systems; they are so fiddly and difficult that if you manage to sharpen anything at all you really want the edge to last.
Made more difficult with A2 steel of course; difficulty seems to be the objective, and you get drawn into a spiral of increasing difficulty with increasingly expensive solutions, such as this one, made with magical PMT-V11 steel.

not at all fiddly or difficult, just use the correct stones and it's easy.

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

Deema’s post is interesting. I was thought to sharpen wood chisels a long time ago before diamond plates were known about
I still free hand sharpen my tools only using the grinder when I have to, I was taught, to do finger of 8 on the oil stone
Since starting to wood turn I have bought diamond plates, cheap basic set to see how I get on with them< as I was starting to cause unease ware in my oil stones that I use for other tool.
I have to say that I could be a convert to diamond sharpening, although they plates I have seem to become worn out very quickly
I don’t know if this how I use them or cos I bought a cheap set
Yes I have looked at jigs, but limited space means that I have to plan a project, get out/set up the tool/drill/lathe do that stage and then get the next tool out.
Therefore a jig is of no use to me as I am unable to leave it set up

 

[--Tom--]

Sharpening threads always seem to go like this:

Take metal tool - invariably someone will say the metal is the wrong kind and you should only use X
Rub it on something - invariably your rubbing it wrong and you should or shouldn’t go up and down or left to right or figure if 8s etc
Use an abrasive - invariably the abrasive being used is wrong and you shouldn’t use oilstones or Waterstones or sandpaper or diamond stones
Use different grit ratings - invariably the grit ratings are wrong you should never use coarse grits or fine grits and only use coarse grits or fine grits
Use certain angles - invariably you should only have one bevel or you should have a microbevel or you should only be at 30- regardless what you’re doing is wrong
Flat, concave or convex bevels- whichever you think is best is actually wrong
Strop it on something - you guessed it someone will tell you stropping is wrong

Reality is the thing that matters is you doing it and knowing what you’re doing. Pick any of the above but just pick one of each for now- and then if you can’t make it work get help from someone. Real life demos or 1:1 discussion can shortcut a lot of failure

 

[ColinDeVelen]

For what it's worth, I started with the Paul Sellars method (3 stones, 400, 600 1200 and a strop). You will hear him talk about 'housekeeping' or something similar. This is where he is grinding away the roundover that his system puts in the blade. I found this out through having a favourite chisel that was getting more difficult to use. I had an eclipse clone guide that I put the chisel in, set to approximately the right angle (it's not really that critical) and then went back to the coarsest plate. After a couple of strokes I could see the line of abrasion, right in the middle of the bevel. After enough heavy work on that stone, I got a flat bevel and a burr. From there, easy to work up through the next stones. I personally find that as long as I remember the housekeeping strokes, and, as said, sharpen regularly, that there's never been a repeat of the issue. Wish you luck.
Also, from experience: 1. You don't need to buy expensive plates. 2. Don't jump around to multiple systems until you get competent with this one. It will distract you from woodworking.

 

[djellworth]

Despite the "all you have to do is...." we've had so many students at the woodwork school who have tried and failed - both with hand only sharpening and with honing guides.

It is one of those - when you know how, it is really easy things - but lots struggle on their own.

Ideally find someone experienced locally who can give you (literally) 10 mins of their time; sometimes there is nothing quite like "touch and feel" teaching.

(If this isn't possible then you can DM me and we can sort something out but I'm not touting for busines - we are quite booked up - and other woodwork schools are available!!)

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

I have reached the stage,
As long as it’s sharp and it works for me. Even if I have to resharpen more often