Sharpening chisels for a complete novice
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TheTiddles
Established Member
Dammit, you got there before me!Rather disappointing that no-one has pointed out to Swiss Tony that sharpening a chisel is like making love to a beautiful woman...
Rather disappointing that no-one has pointed out to Swiss Tony that sharpening a chisel is like making love to a beautiful woman...
You never have to sneak out of a shop to break wind when you're done sharpening, though. Or escape out of a window.
G S Haydon
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DW, cult TV of the 90's, The Fast Show
timothyedoran
Established Member
I had a similar stone to the Stanley one and it never got my chisels sharp. I then bought a diamond stone from its and at the same time bought a block of green polishing compound. Amazing difference and made my woodwork much better as the chisels cut rather than tore the wood. My skill level is still just past newbie.
I always use a guide because I was finding the edge was not square and was slanting. I don't do enough practicing to nail the free hand technique.
I got one of these but in a 300/1000 combo and it's been great. I have not used it loads.
https://www.its.co.uk/pd/210052-Vau...ided-200mm-x-75mm-CoarseMedium-_VNT210052.htm
I always use a guide because I was finding the edge was not square and was slanting. I don't do enough practicing to nail the free hand technique.
I got one of these but in a 300/1000 combo and it's been great. I have not used it loads.
https://www.its.co.uk/pd/210052-Vau...ided-200mm-x-75mm-CoarseMedium-_VNT210052.htm
There are a lot of stones that look like that stanley stone. I kid you not, I got a combination stone that wasn't baked that hard that was all alumina last year, 6x2 at the dollar store. I used it and autosol to sharpen a modern marples parer (relatively modern) to hair hanging sharpness in about 3 minutes. I consider 3 minutes of continuous sharpening a pain (a lot - my typical chisel sharpening routine is 1 minute of power grind per four or so sharpenings and literally 30 seconds to 1 minute of honing and buffing any other time - so 3 minutes of continuous rubbing is intolerable - but it can be done.
"not baked that hard" means that the particles come off of the stone.
For the princely sum of about $8, you can get a stone like that that holds together. Those stones will not provide a sharp edge for two reasons:
1) if they're friable and they're that coarse, the grit is tumbling and you will always get a giant version of slurry dulling
2) even if they're not friable, sometimes they're silicon carbide and sometimes alumina, but they're coarse. In the old days, English joiners carried one black silicon carbide combo stone and a washita. How do I know? My english friend and I looked through his dad's tool box when his dad died - it was his working tool box. We thought the washita was worthless (we didn't know better) and found the enormously swayed silicon carbide stone fascinating.
My friend still has the washita -I have trouble convincing him how great it is. He thinks my sharpening is some kind of slight of hand trick. I can hone a razor on a washita now. that combination would be my tool box combination choice for anything, above and beyond anything "modern".
But the coarse alumina stones that are not vitrified and the silicon carbide stones will never finish an edge. They're useful for maintaining a bevel so that something like a washita can work the tip of the tool.
Somewhere between that old fellow and jacob, people forgot how to sharpen properly in the joiner trade in england.
"not baked that hard" means that the particles come off of the stone.
For the princely sum of about $8, you can get a stone like that that holds together. Those stones will not provide a sharp edge for two reasons:
1) if they're friable and they're that coarse, the grit is tumbling and you will always get a giant version of slurry dulling
2) even if they're not friable, sometimes they're silicon carbide and sometimes alumina, but they're coarse. In the old days, English joiners carried one black silicon carbide combo stone and a washita. How do I know? My english friend and I looked through his dad's tool box when his dad died - it was his working tool box. We thought the washita was worthless (we didn't know better) and found the enormously swayed silicon carbide stone fascinating.
My friend still has the washita -I have trouble convincing him how great it is. He thinks my sharpening is some kind of slight of hand trick. I can hone a razor on a washita now. that combination would be my tool box combination choice for anything, above and beyond anything "modern".
But the coarse alumina stones that are not vitrified and the silicon carbide stones will never finish an edge. They're useful for maintaining a bevel so that something like a washita can work the tip of the tool.
Somewhere between that old fellow and jacob, people forgot how to sharpen properly in the joiner trade in england.
johnnyb
Established Member
I have a beginner come to me on Saturday mornings and I can tell you what he does wrong(sorry 1275gt!). it may be that you do the same and gain a bit of insight.
firstly he spends to long polishing the backs with a fine abrasive this tends to eventually result in rounding of the edge. I've had to grind the rounding off a few.
he tends to try and sharpen using fine abrasive this tends to result in not reaching the sharp bit.
as always observation and reaction aren't entirely coordinated in beginners.
shiny and polished are not necessarily sharp. learn to feel the burr as that is the ultimate test of if your at the edge. don't bother with superfine abrasives coarser is more practical for beginners as long as your reaching the end. hope that helps.
firstly he spends to long polishing the backs with a fine abrasive this tends to eventually result in rounding of the edge. I've had to grind the rounding off a few.
he tends to try and sharpen using fine abrasive this tends to result in not reaching the sharp bit.
as always observation and reaction aren't entirely coordinated in beginners.
shiny and polished are not necessarily sharp. learn to feel the burr as that is the ultimate test of if your at the edge. don't bother with superfine abrasives coarser is more practical for beginners as long as your reaching the end. hope that helps.
johnnyb
Established Member
ps I think honing guides have value because they can allow a beginner a bit of control so they can increase the angle slightly between coarse and fine thus ensuring the fine reaches the end of the edge
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I would advise never to use a honing guide. They are slow, fiddly, inconvenient and entail several other problems, not least that you get drawn in to the whole malarkey of the modern sharpening craze.
Doesn't take long to get the knack of freehand sharpening - it's much quicker and more convenient. About as difficult as sharpening a pencil.
PS I see (several comments above) the Stanley offering gets a bad press. Never tried it myself so I won't disagree!
But the Norton stones are utterly different and last reliably for many years - lifetimes in fact.
I've tried all sorts but if starting again I'd choose the Norton ib8 for basics and one more Norton fine stone for finer finishing. About all you need really.
I've had unbranded synthetic stones similar to the Norton except brown instead of pink, and just as good - Norton not the only option.
I do have 3 eze lap diamond plates - a very expensive mistake really as they have low resale value, but the 3" width is handy now I've got them. The coarse plate is losing its edge - coarse Norton is faster.
I also have white and black Arkansas 8x2" which certainly do refine an edge if required for special purposes e.g. planing demos - to show that it can be done on that gnarly bit of exotic something or other.
I can see the attraction of finish hand planing of smaller objects but it becomes a labour of love if you try to do it on a difficult table top - and the speed and ease of freehand honing suddenly becomes essential!
Doesn't take long to get the knack of freehand sharpening - it's much quicker and more convenient. About as difficult as sharpening a pencil.
PS I see (several comments above) the Stanley offering gets a bad press. Never tried it myself so I won't disagree!
But the Norton stones are utterly different and last reliably for many years - lifetimes in fact.
I've tried all sorts but if starting again I'd choose the Norton ib8 for basics and one more Norton fine stone for finer finishing. About all you need really.
I've had unbranded synthetic stones similar to the Norton except brown instead of pink, and just as good - Norton not the only option.
I do have 3 eze lap diamond plates - a very expensive mistake really as they have low resale value, but the 3" width is handy now I've got them. The coarse plate is losing its edge - coarse Norton is faster.
I also have white and black Arkansas 8x2" which certainly do refine an edge if required for special purposes e.g. planing demos - to show that it can be done on that gnarly bit of exotic something or other.
I can see the attraction of finish hand planing of smaller objects but it becomes a labour of love if you try to do it on a difficult table top - and the speed and ease of freehand honing suddenly becomes essential!
Last edited:
swisstony
Established Member
Rather disappointing that no-one has pointed out to Swiss Tony that sharpening a chisel is like making love to a beautiful woman...
I was waiting for it but thanks for jumping in
pidgeonpost
Established Member
Although I've been a hobby woodworker for almost 50 years I always seem to make a balls of sharpening freehand and end up using a honing guide.
I've tried, I really have. I can get an edge, but all too often I end up with a rounded bevel and an out of square edge.
I'm tempted to try again having read some of the posts, maybe watch a few videos.
My efforts do to some degree equate to the beautiful woman bit, but in my case it's mostly determination and perspiration.
I've tried, I really have. I can get an edge, but all too often I end up with a rounded bevel and an out of square edge.
I'm tempted to try again having read some of the posts, maybe watch a few videos.
My efforts do to some degree equate to the beautiful woman bit, but in my case it's mostly determination and perspiration.
johnnyb
Established Member
don't underestimate the effect of actually sharpening a tool (on purpose)as opposed to messing around and accidentally having a sharp tool. this can be like a game changer. please don't think I advocate honing guides but to get people over this first hurdle it's ideal.
johnnyb
Established Member
ps pidgeonpost if it works for you then don't stop now(fifty years is a long time)
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Rounded bevel is perfectly OK as long as the edge itself doesn't exceed 30º too far. More or less unavoidable with freehand sharpening - it's difficult to freehand a flat bevel but quite unnecessary.
It's a big item on the modern sharpeners agenda and causes them a lot of anxiety!
Another good tip is to put a drop of oil on the back of the chisel near the tip, put it on the stone ready to sharpen, and when you raise the handle (slowly ) the drop of oil will suddenly disperse onto the stone when the tip contacts the stone.... then try to keep your wrist/ elbow etc at the same kind of height as you move the chisel ( forward and back or v shape or figure of 8, whichever )
It often helps to determine the right worktop height to work on to make it easier. Mine is about 900 high, standard kitchen worktop height
It often helps to determine the right worktop height to work on to make it easier. Mine is about 900 high, standard kitchen worktop height
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Or dip it as you go. Lower the angle slightly. You can put more energy into it if you start at 30º but dip in a sort of shovelling action. The thing to avoid is lifting it and rounding the bevel over.
have none of you tried the Trend sharpening system ? I bought one for my birthday straight from the box I loved it but when I tried to use it the magnets that hold on the diamond stone fell out I was offered a replacement but Id already cleaned out the holes and bonded them back in with a metal reson glue after that what a great blade you get I needed somthing lighter because of athritis in the wrists and rigorouse hand movements were a thing of the past .
David bonner
Established Member
Hey this requires skill and art if you ain’t got the gudgens to sharpen the blades or chisels as to say try it out boy no jig in this game.
This is an accurate statement. Get the result from the guide and learn to do it free hand once you have a good idea regarding the mechanics.
You have to work the fine bits at the edge on both sides. The idea that someone picks a single angle, rounded or not, and finishes well doesn't happen in practice.
What's the difference in edge life on a smoothing plane for coming up short ? You'll be sharpening about twice as often, at least.
