Sharpening: 1000 vs 16000 grit.

[Ed Bray]

New video by Rob Cosman on sharpening and the end result:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWX2ursXfqw

 

[Jacob]

I wouldn't watch it too closely - Cosman is into "difficult" sharpening in a big way. Better off with Sellers. Keep it simple.

 

[MIGNAL]

Crikey, I'm behind the times. My stones only go up to 8,000G.
I'll save mi pennies and buy a 16,000. By the time I saved enuff they might be up to 24,000. Then 16,000 will be considered ruff. Still, I got off cheap. I've only spent 780 quid on sharpening media in the last 10 years.

 

[Corneel]

Actually, as he presents his sharpening method in this video, it isn't overly complex. I don't use the ruler trick, because I don't think it is neccessary and only adds another doodad, but further I sharpen exactly the same. Raise a burr on a medium coarse stone, then raise the angle a little further and reduce the burr on a fine stone, flip the blade over and completely remove the burr on that fine stone. I would even go a little further and go back and forth a few times with less pressure between the bevel and the face of the blade to remove the last traces of the burr. That's a very traditional sharpening method.

There is one thing in this video where I have my doubts. Did he really remove the burr on that 1K diamond plate? Didn't he just flip it over to the other side? If remnants of the burr are still there, it is no wonder he sees tracks in the wood. Especially with A2 steel which forms a tenacious burr.

But it is true that a 1000 grit edge isn't the pinnacle of sharpness. No doubt about that.

 

[JohnPW]

Wouldn't stropping (Autosol on MDF) achieve the same result as the 16,000 stone?

 

[MIGNAL]

Probably but Cosman sells the 16,000G and the 1,000G and the Honerite as well. They are absolutely useless sat unsold on the shelf. They don't do these videos for the good of their health. . .

 

[MIGNAL]

But it is true that a 1000 grit edge isn't the pinnacle of sharpness. No doubt about that.

True but it's about being 'good enough' and 1,000G gets you there a large percentage of the time. I have an 8,000G waterstone so I use it (+stropping) when I really do require a very fine edge, which really isn't all that often. One day I'll try the 1,000G followed by stropping (I don't have a 1,000G stone) but I know a very good woodworker who uses nothing but that combination.

 

[JohnPW]

Probably but Cosman sells the 16,000G and the 1,000G and the Honerite as well. They are absolutely useless sat unsold on the shelf. They don't do these videos for the good of their health. . .

Well, if it's not advertising the products they sell, it's courses they run.

 

[Jacob]

Honerite is a completely insane rip off.
These media circus clowns are best avoided like the plague.

 

[bugbear]

Wouldn't stropping (Autosol on MDF) achieve the same result as the 16,000 stone?

The Shapton 16000 is 0.92 micron according to their website.

http://www.shapton.com/#!glassstone/c1fsz

There are certainly stropping compounds finer than 0.92 micron, but I don't know if Autosol is one of them.

BugBear

 

[Peter Sefton]

Has any one got much experience of using the Shapton stones? If so how have you got on with them?

One of my past students has some after seeing Rob using them, we have access to them and I have thought about putting them on the website but would like to hear from long time users for their opinions.

Cheers Peter

 

[David C]

Peter,
I have used the glass stones quite a bit and am not particularly fond of them.

Beware the diamond flattening stone. Mine is close to wearing out despite having been treated extremely carefully.

They cut well enough but load up very quickly.

I have a 1500 pro stone which I like a lot for final polish.

BTW I was extremely satisfied, for many years, with the performance of King 8,000 grit polishing stones and see no need to go further.

Best wishes,
David Charlesworth

 

[Ed Bray]

I've got the 16000 ceramic/glass but I have only had it a few weeks, it seems to do the job okay but as it cost £100 I tend to keep it just for my plane irons, my chisels get done on a 3000/8000 smaller stone.

 

[David C]

I think the speed of Rob's sharpening is remarkable. It reflects an understanding of what is needed to produce an extremely sharp edge, in minimum time.

Personally I would prefer to use an Eclipse type jig, which takes very little extra time, but ensures precision, particularly for beginners.

Corneel would not have to "go back and forth" to remove his wire edge, if the edge of the back was contacting the stone properly, (and it were fine enough). Ruler trick ensures this. That is its greatest merit.

I'm afraid the naysayers have no viable case.

Best wishes,
David Charlesworth

 

[Jacob]

Crikey, I'm behind the times. My stones only go up to 8,000G.
I'll save mi pennies and buy a 16,000. By the time I saved enuff they might be up to 24,000. Then 16,000 will be considered ruff. Still, I got off cheap. I've only spent 780 quid on sharpening media in the last 10 years.

I've spent about £100 in 50 years. Praps £150. Not counting oil or belts. Perhaps a realistic maximum of £300. Plus a Sorby Pro edge.
All the expensive stuff talked about on here is for sharpening enthusiasts - not mere woodworkers. Nobody needed it in the past and they don't now.
NB the "ruler" trick i.e. a small face bevel as a quick way of getting and edge on a plane blade, is as old as the hills and is easier without the ruler - you just lift the blade a touch as necessary. Usually just a matter of pressure rather than an actual lift - so little you'd hardly notice it. All plane blades have always done this way otherwise you'd have to flatten the whole face everytime. Chisel blades too - which is why they all end up after many years use with a slightly convex face

 

[David C]

Ah, no wonder so many old blades are in such terrible condition.

I'm so sorry its all too difficult for you.

And no one has ever suggested the ruler trick for all normal blade sharpening before, as you very well know!

David

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Better off with Sellers. Keep it simple.

+ 1. Paul Sellers is excellent and shows you how to do it freehand, something that I never thought I would attempt.

 

[Jacob]

Ah, no wonder so many old blades are in such terrible condition.

Yes all those millions of old woodworkers who knew nothing about sharpening

....
And no one has ever suggested the ruler trick for all normal blade sharpening before, as you very well know!

David

Because the same thing has always been done much more easily without the ruler.

 

[David C]

Rob Cosman is doing it freehand, and a good deal faster than Paul Sellers.

Though there is nothing wrong with Sellers or even Jacob's method. Its just a shame he can't stop being rude about other methods.

David

 

[Corneel]

+ 1. Paul Sellers is excellent and shows you how to do it freehand, something that I never thought I would attempt.

You did know that Cosman teaches freehand too, didn't you?

Personally, I recently switched to oilstones. I got a nice Washita and a very good Arkansas stone now. It wasn't utterly cheap, but all together something like 120 euro. There is a learning curve, because they work quite different compared to waterstones. The burr is more of an issue with these and I am still trying to find the best way to remove it cleanly. On my waterstones I couldn't really detect the burr after the 8000 stone anymore. The oilstones have some great features. They are hard, don't dish or gouge quickly and the natural ones don't soak up the oil like an India stone does.

Waterstones don't need to be expensive either, but a diamond plate to keep them flat is nice to have. And these diamond plates indeed wear out over time.

Oh well, it's all a compromise anyway.