SawStop Braking Mechanism

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I can remember getting my first (and only) table saw. No training, a quick read of the manual and how to set it up! That was it! Surely new saws somehow need, even if it's a video to watch regarding safe use, some kind of instruction? I'm too aware that I was very niaive, even if very wary, when I started using a table saw.
 
A tempting belief, that one. Many humans, me included, indulge in the schadenfreude from time to time. It's difficult not to somehow enjoy seeing a dafty bitten by the consequences of a serious episode of daftness. However .....
Even nature gets things wrong and so to weed out the sub standard it came up with survival of the fittest which was supposed to remove anything that failed to meet the standard.
 
Just a couple of quick calculations tells you why demonstrators don't use their own fingers: well I certainly wouldn't.
If you assume the following, and you may want to argue details but the basis is still the same - OUCH!!
Saw RPM 3000rpm, 40 teeth, Diameter 254mm, stop time 1 msec (1/1000 sec). then the number of teeth passing through your finger in the stop time = 2.
TWO teeth through your digit. That's going to be a massive bruise even if you're not cut. And this assumes a stop time as aired above although it was also said that the detection time may increase that significantly. If it doubles to 2 msec that's FOUR teeth.
I, for one, am keeping my wiener well and truly hidden.
Martin
 
Just a couple of quick calculations tells you why demonstrators don't use their own fingers: well I certainly wouldn't.
If you assume the following, and you may want to argue details but the basis is still the same - OUCH!!
Saw RPM 3000rpm, 40 teeth, Diameter 254mm, stop time 1 msec (1/1000 sec). then the number of teeth passing through your finger in the stop time = 2.
TWO teeth through your digit. That's going to be a massive bruise even if you're not cut. And this assumes a stop time as aired above although it was also said that the detection time may increase that significantly. If it doubles to 2 msec that's FOUR teeth.
I, for one, am keeping my wiener well and truly hidden.
Martin
Third obvious reason is that it's a machine and like all machines it will fail at some point.
 
I would have left the braking cartridge stuck in the blade, added a simple quartz mechanism, a pair of hands, for a nifty workshop clock.
:)
Someone in the US even now may be buying up such embedded blades and readying a clock production line. $299 plus taxes, P&P. WARNING: Do not disassemble and install in a table saw!
 
:)
Someone in the US even now may be buying up such embedded blades and readying a clock production line. $299 plus taxes, P&P. WARNING: Do not disassemble and install in a table saw!
And here's me sacrificing that valuable asset in the interests of science amusement / my domestic harmony as my dear wife has been putting up with far to many tools in the house recently !

If anyone wants the blade (one careful owner, low miles, use at your own risk) you're welcome to it for the cost of postage.

I'm hanging onto the brake for more photos ...
 
Third obvious reason is that it's a machine and like all machines it will fail at some point.
In any safety system failure is accepted but on two conditions, it fails safe and the failure is revealed. That is why a system that is designed to provide some safety function has to be tested end to end and initially a lot more frequently until you have enough history to support the stated SIL rating and that this system will perform on demand.
 
Hers's the most recent survey of US table saw injuries I can find:

https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/statsaws.pdf

The figures are rather damning.

Two main factors seem to be in play: a macho attitude that rejects safety devices as somehow a nanny thing not for real woodworkers; the unisaw design which has for decades eschewed riving knife, effective guards, a blade brake and many of the other safety features long built in to European table saws.

It does seem to be a behavioural/cultural issue. I can't find the report now but I recall reading one that looked at various kinds of "accidents" across different nations. On many fronts, with various potentially dangerous machinery, the USA was pro rata a highly dangerous place to work with such things compared to other first world nations and even some rather less developed nations. Their traffic "accident" rate was reported as poor compared to many other nations too.

Sawstop is, from one perspective, a highly necessary development for the US, since a lot of users refuse to adopt safe operating procedures recommended by the likes of HSE as "not convenient". Sawstop is the unavoidable nanny in their tablesaw that stops them self-harming. :)

I seem to recall that riving knives are now mandated by the US government on new table saws sold in the US (but not on the millions of old/extant ones). Another necessary nanny. Will some remove them on principle, to regain their freedom to enjoy a nice kickback from a plank?
Your link is for 15+ year old stats.
This is even before riving knives were standard here in the states.
This is a bit more comprehensive and more current

My personal take on power tools is this;
Caution.jpeg
 
Portman Burtley's sawmill had one saw with what must have been an 8' Diameter blade. You could only see half of it.
The only safety sign said "Fresh milk is the best thing for transporting severed fingers"
 
I think @Jacob has already alluded to this - but what if one fails to work? It is quite a hostage to fortune manufacturing something of this nature. If there are enough units in circulation, then the odds of one not working when it is supposed to will start to rise. We are all accustomed to modern electronics working perfectly and flawlessly, but every now and then it doesn't. Perhaps a caution to keep using the push sticks, and to " Put not your trust in gadgets for in them lies no salvation".
As for legislation to make it mandatory - we all know what has happened to any HSSE related product - it has risen to a ridiculous price, simply because employers are obligated to protect their staff and the manufacturers know they can make additional profits.
 
Anybody know of an actual sawstop user who has triggered the thing during actual normal use (e.g. without sausage) and how/why he/she came to be misusing the saw so badly?
 
Anybody know of an actual sawstop user who has triggered the thing during actual normal use (e.g. without sausage) and how/why he/she came to be misusing the saw so badly?
If you can be bothered to trawl the US forums you'll find a few reports. The owners generally host them is a gush of praise for the device, which is understandable. Not just a finger saved but also a whacking great bill to mend it. Sometimes they describe how they came to put a finger on the blade but not always, as I recall. There are also reports of false positive firings or those when the detector can't distinguish between the finger and something with a similar resistance-profile to the detection circuit.

**********
The device is, undoubtedly, a legit means to prevent the careless from sawing off a finger or even a whole hand. It's mere presence doesn't seem to do anything much to encourage other safe practices with a TS, going by the continuance of unsafe-sawing pics and vids all over the interweb .... although actual firings might do so. At least Sawstops have to now have a riving knife that goes up & down with the blade, so doesn't immediately get removed.
 
At least Sawstops have to now have a riving knife that goes up & down with the blade, so doesn't immediately get removed.
Once again you need to be corrected because your statement implies the saw never had them until recently. Factually incorrect that others read and pass along from which more incorrect assumptions are made.

Since the beginning they have come with a riving knife that follows the blade when raised and or tilted. It is easily switched out for the blade guard by lifting off the throat plate and flipping a lever. Slip the knife/guard in and flip the leaver back, replace the throat plate. Blade guard is a riving knife splitter that holds the blade guard with anti kickback pawls and it also follows the blade when raised or tilted. Choose either the guard or riving knife as required to best suit the work being done.

Pete
 
I think @Jacob has already alluded to this - but what if one fails to work? It is quite a hostage to fortune manufacturing something of this nature. If there are enough units in circulation, then the odds of one not working when it is supposed to will start to rise. We are all accustomed to modern electronics working perfectly and flawlessly, but every now and then it doesn't. Perhaps a caution to keep using the push sticks, and to " Put not your trust in gadgets for in them lies no salvation".
As for legislation to make it mandatory - we all know what has happened to any HSSE related product - it has risen to a ridiculous price, simply because employers are obligated to protect their staff and the manufacturers know they can make additional profits.
It's an additional safety device. It doesn't replace push sticks and safe working. It is a last ditch attempt to save someones hand if they do something stupid or accidentally.


Just a couple of quick calculations tells you why demonstrators don't use their own fingers: well I certainly wouldn't.
If you assume the following, and you may want to argue details but the basis is still the same - OUCH!!
Saw RPM 3000rpm, 40 teeth, Diameter 254mm, stop time 1 msec (1/1000 sec). then the number of teeth passing through your finger in the stop time = 2.
TWO teeth through your digit. That's going to be a massive bruise even if you're not cut. And this assumes a stop time as aired above although it was also said that the detection time may increase that significantly. If it doubles to 2 msec that's FOUR teeth.
I, for one, am keeping my wiener well and truly hidden.
Martin
If I recall correctly they are designed to cut no more than 3mm into a hand/finger etc so should at worst leave a small cut. The alternative is to lose the finger/hand.

Also, your calculations don't take into account the design of the system. It uses the centripetal force of the spinning blade to it's advantage and pulls the blade back and down.
 
If there are enough units in circulation, then the odds of one not working when it is supposed to will start to rise.
As I have said, failure is accepted and often expected as making any system with a 100% certainty of not failing is nigh on imposible and why in safety critical systems you get redundancy, ie in an aircraft you get at least two independant hydraulic systems so you have a backup. What you want is the sawstop to fail safe, this would mean it inhibits the operation of the saw and to be revealed so some form of warning like a lamp or audable beep. If this was a SIL4 rated safety system then you would still need to prove that the failure inhibits the saw but due to it's design proving it's primary function would be difficult unless the test was built into the sawstop. But one saw causing injury to one person does not warrant a high SIL rating.
 
Once again you need to be corrected because your statement implies the saw never had them until recently. Factually incorrect that others read and pass along from which more incorrect assumptions are made.

Since the beginning they have come with a riving knife that follows the blade when raised and or tilted. It is easily switched out for the blade guard by lifting off the throat plate and flipping a lever. Slip the knife/guard in and flip the leaver back, replace the throat plate. Blade guard is a riving knife splitter that holds the blade guard with anti kickback pawls and it also follows the blade when raised or tilted. Choose either the guard or riving knife as required to best suit the work being done.

Pete
Apologies for my bad syntax. I meant only that Sawstops do come with riving knives. And yes, they always have. But many still seem to use them without a guard, using only their hands to guide the workpiece - going by vids and magazine articles/pictures.
 
Apologies for my bad syntax. I meant only that Sawstops do come with riving knives. And yes, they always have. But many still seem to use them without a guard, using only their hands to guide the workpiece - going by vids and magazine articles/pictures.
Forgiven. 🙂

Unfortunately given the SawStop is such a polarizing subject minor inaccuracies soon become facts. Way to much of that lately from politics.

Those same twits would pull even the best guards as they have since table saws were invented. Heck some would even pull the blade brake if they could.

Pete
 

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