Sanding oak veneer for staining

[uziwood786]

Hey guys,

I’m making my first cupboard and it’s ready to stain now, but I’m really confused as to sanding the oak veneer before staining.

Some say use 120 and then 240, some say don’t sand it at all?

if I do sand it shall I go by hand, orbital, random, does it matter?

would really appreciate some guidance on this because there’s so many conflicting opinions. Thanks!

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I'm guessing that you've made the cabinet out of pre-veneered board - you do say it's your first cupboard, so I'm supposing you've not matched and laid sheets of veneer from scratch.

Assuming I'm right and the material is man-made board pre-veneered in oak it will have been sanded at the time of manufacture. Still, a little extra prepping is essential, so you should sand again from 120 grit, through 150 grit (if you have it available) and finish at 180 grit. There won't be much veneer thickness to play around with, so your sanding with 120 grit should be no more than is needed to remove any small flaws, such as minor scratches, very light bruising, and so on. After that the finer grits simply refine the surface and take out striations from the coarser grit (120). There's no point going below 180 grit with coarse wood species' such as oak, ash, chestnut, etc because the open texture (voids between grain ridges) of the wood are about the same size as 180 grit.

You can sand all by hand with the grain, or sand using power, such as a random orbital sander (ROS), but the latter will remove wood quicker. Each method has its pluses and minuses, but they both work. In general, if I've worked through the grits to 180 grit with an ROS, I like to revert to a bit of final hand sanding working along the grain using a sanding block wrapped with 180 grit just to remove the swirl marks left by the ROS which can sometimes show up under a clear finish, such as varnish.

Of course, if there are any large divots in the surface, big scratches in the veneer, etc, you'll need to undertake some repairs at some point, e.g., filler or a hot iron and damp cloth to raise dents. It might also be a good idea, assuming this is all a bit new to you, to get an offcut of your veneered board and sand it pretty hard to see how quickly damage might be caused if you're not careful, i.e., sanding through the veneer to the ground. Slainte.

 

[MARK.B.]

As Richard says have a test on an off cut ,it is all to easy to go through the veneer and spoil the jobnever happens at the start but in my case at least its usually happens when the job is nearly finished

 

[uziwood786]

I'm guessing that you've made the cabinet out of pre-veneered board - you do say it's your first cupboard, so I'm supposing you've not matched and laid sheets of veneer from scratch.

Assuming I'm right and the material is man-made board pre-veneered in oak it will have been sanded at the time of manufacture. Still, a little extra prepping is essential, so you should sand again from 120 grit, through 150 grit (if you have it available) and finish at 180 grit. There won't be much veneer thickness to play around with, so your sanding with 120 grit should be no more than is needed to remove any small flaws, such as minor scratches, very light bruising, and so on. After that the finer grits simply refine the surface and take out striations from the coarser grit (120). There's no point going below 180 grit with coarse wood species' such as oak, ash, chestnut, etc because the open texture (voids between grain ridges) of the wood are about the same size as 180 grit.

You can sand all by hand with the grain, or sand using power, such as a random orbital sander (ROS), but the latter will remove wood quicker. Each method has its pluses and minuses, but they both work. In general, if I've worked through the grits to 180 grit with an ROS, I like to revert to a bit of final hand sanding working along the grain using a sanding block wrapped with 180 grit just to remove the swirl marks left by the ROS which can sometimes show up under a clear finish, such as varnish.

Of course, if there are any large divots in the surface, big scratches in the veneer, etc, you'll need to undertake some repairs at some point, e.g., filler or a hot iron and damp cloth to raise dents. It might also be a good idea, assuming this is all a bit new to you, to get an offcut of your veneered board and sand it pretty hard to see how quickly damage might be caused if you're not careful, i.e., sanding through the veneer to the ground. Slainte.

Thanks so much for your detailed reply, I want to report back with the following:

So the first two I did were 120 ROS and then finished off with 180 by hand (couldn’t find 180 sandpaper discs)

the result wasn’t great, very blotchy and uneven finish.

The next 3 we’re 120 ROS, 180 by hand and 240 ROS. I think the finish was pretty good, even, but keen to get your thoughts on if it’s a good finish, could it be better? The objective is that I just want it to look as professional as possible, it should look like it’s been done by someone who’s been doing it for 20 years, not a newbie like me

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Your image with the three pieces look good enough to apply finish, although it's a bit hard to be sure because the image is quite small. I'm surprised you can't find 180 grit sanding discs. I've just had a look at a few of the usual sources, e.g., B&Q, Screwfix and Toolstation, and they each list them as available, but maybe they aren't in your area. Slainte.

 

[uziwood786]

Thank you! Would you mind sending a link please, I checked all those and didn’t see anything apart from sheets.

Do you think I would get a better result if I spray stained the stain, or would the result be the same? Spraying would be with HVLP gun

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Thank you! Would you mind sending a link please, I checked all those and didn’t see anything apart from sheets.
Do you think I would get a better result if I spray stained the stain, or would the result be the same? Spraying would be with HVLP gun

At each of the suppliers I named do a search for '180 grit sanding discs'. That will bring up relevant links.

As to stain or dye application, both hand application and spray application can work very well. But it depends on the stain or dye type and your skill and experience. Dye and stain aren't the same thing in that dyes have no pigments and stains do, but the suppliers of these products don't always make it clear which product they're providing, and you have to read the product description carefully to know what you've got. For instance, the product may be labelled a stain, but careful reading of the product description won't mention pigment, nor instruct the user to stir thoroughly before and during use to mix in and prevent settlement of that pigment element. In other words, the product should properly be described as a dye, not a stain.

Whatever colourant you've got I suggest you follow the application guidance printed on the can, or whatever guidance is provided by the manufacturer, e.g., at their website, printed literature, etc. Manufacturers know how their products work and provide the necessary guidance for those with relatively little experience or knowledge. Having said that, furniture polishers that know their trade have all sorts of tricks and techniques that wood finishing manufacturers don't describe.

The fact that you're asking how you might apply the colourant, whatever it is exactly, indicates that you lack a bit of experience and knowledge and it seems likely to me that the best course for you would be to, as I suggested, follow the manufacturer's guidance. Slainte.