A
Anonymous
Guest
Definitely well played Scotland - England lost that one good and proper
Rugby
- Thread starter Bean
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DomValente
Established Member
Err, just until March the 18th, the team of my forefathers has just been practising ready for that date and I will be there to watch. See you in Rome.
Dom
Dom
ikd
Established Member
Tony":1a7fkdg2 said:
Definitely agree. England played like amatuers. And why do they keep playing Ellis. He is consistently too slow to get the ball out. The only time the team livend up was when Dawson came on.
Never mind, suppose we should give Scotland thier one weeks glory :lol: as the will be mullered next week 8)
Agree re Ellis. Also think England should get over their aversion to kicking from the ruck. Scotland were so eager to attack our backs that they left the rest of the field unguarded most of the game.
If Ellis happens to be into making wood smaller (and on this site) then please watch the video, and next time kick the ball when kicking is appropriate.
Rant over (for now)!
Sam
If Ellis happens to be into making wood smaller (and on this site) then please watch the video, and next time kick the ball when kicking is appropriate.
Rant over (for now)!
Sam
Alf
Established Member
Am I right in thinking I saw Matt Dawson on as blood replacement for Ellis, and then taken off to let Ellis on again? Huh? Crazy.
Cheers, Alf
Cheers, Alf
Bean
Established Member
Alf the reason being that dawson is getting a bit long in the tooth, and what a lot of people have missed is that Scotland were doing a very good job of slowing the ball down in the rucks and England were not doing a very good job of clearing hands/bodies in the rucks, to speed the exit of the ball. Its what you have second rows and flank forwards for.
Scotland played better on the day, England didn't not show a great deal of imagination. It does not matter who is on the pitch providing they stand up to be counted and make their mark, a team should do well, unfortunately the England players didn't.
Bean
Scotland played better on the day, England didn't not show a great deal of imagination. It does not matter who is on the pitch providing they stand up to be counted and make their mark, a team should do well, unfortunately the England players didn't.
Bean
Alf
Established Member
I know that. :roll: But Ellis wasn't standing up and being counted, and the pace of things consistantly steps up with Dawson on, which they needed, so why bother bringing Ellis back once he was off?Bean":f3sznvtz said:
Cheers, Alf
ikd
Established Member
Alf":10w5ibmr said:
5 minutes later he was substituted after being coming back from a blood replacement. A waste of time if you ask me.
Alf
Established Member
'Xactly!
Vormulac
Established Member
Congratulations to Scotland, deserved to win, but only by virtue of playing less badly than the other team on the pitch. One of the worst games of Rugger I've seen, no spark or flair from either side, and I agree about Dawson - what the blazes were they thinking??
I hope for Scotland's sake this doesn't represent a degree of complacency creeping in to the team after their splendid recent performances. (well used to complacency discombobulating what should be a victorious England side!)
Ah well, bring on the next round.
I hope for Scotland's sake this doesn't represent a degree of complacency creeping in to the team after their splendid recent performances. (well used to complacency discombobulating what should be a victorious England side!)
Ah well, bring on the next round.
ikd
Established Member
Mind you its nicely set up with 4 out of the 6 nations on one loss each. It may yet come down to points scored on the pitch?
Bean
Established Member
Ellis is only 1 of 15 men on the pitch most of them with more experience at that level than him................who stood up to be counted in a white shirt ???? so its left for the new boy to take the can for all the old heads.....................hmm Interesting, Played many Team Games
If england do not blood youngens they will have to fit dawsons zimmer frame with studs. Dawson on this occasion had a better game, and that was mediocre. Week in week out Ellis has run rings around Dawson in the league. No one like to lose but you are a fool if you think you will win every game.
Bean
If england do not blood youngens they will have to fit dawsons zimmer frame with studs. Dawson on this occasion had a better game, and that was mediocre. Week in week out Ellis has run rings around Dawson in the league. No one like to lose but you are a fool if you think you will win every game.
Bean
Alf
Established Member
Ever come across the phenomenon of someone who can't quite manage the step-up from league to international? No Ellis wasn't solely to blame; no one said that. But he does consistantly disappoint IMO, and it did seem daft to warm Dawson up as blood replacement, bring him off for a short while and then get him out again.Bean":2mpll1eq said:
Cheers, Alf
Bean
Established Member
Quite often, I seem to remenber Dawson being in that category some time ago. But he was given his run out and persevered with until he had the experience to play effectivly at that level. No one is born to play at any level, for instance when Martin Johnson started playing at my old club, he would back off if someone got rough with him, the club saw the potential and persevered, and taught him to smile when someone punched him. If you stop trying and testing new players and persevering with them until they are up to speed you go nowhere, you live in the past with rules that you stick by without knowing why.
The blame lies with Robinson for poor management. Ellis is not to blame for poor team selection, performance and management, but Robinson is.
You should not shoot something or somebody down for being new, change is to be embraced not feared.
Bean
Alf
Established Member
I'm not saying not to persevere with Ellis. I am saying he's disappointed so far. I'm also saying it's totally crazy to warm someone up, especially an older player, then bring 'em off again for 5 minutes before sending them in again. Especially when the player they're replacing isn't playing so well as to make a difference in those 5 minutes.
Cheers, Alf
Cheers, Alf
Bean
Established Member
Midnight
Only the front 3 :wink:
Bean
Only the front 3 :wink:
Bean
trevtheturner
Established Member
Gone a bit quiet on here this weekend, hasn't it.
With all the shenanigans going on within the WRU this season the Wales (my team) results have been, perhaps, fairly predictable. Anybody got a good reason why Mike Ruddock, the first Wales coach to achieve a Grand Slam for 27 years, should be ditched mid-campaign? Think about it - the WRU dispense with a coach (Ruddock) who would not commit himself beyond the present tournament and replace him with a coach (Johnson) who will not commit himself beyond the present tournament. What a mess! You couldn't make it up.
As for England in Paris yesterday ........... well ........... abysmal.
The old stagers really are starting to look like old men. Dawson, as usual, seemed to spend much of his time moaning to the referee, rather than getting on with the game, which he seemed unable to do with much effect. Dallaglio, when he came on, seemed unable to add much to the team's performance. Looking at England's team performance, big and powerful they may be, or may think they are, but they are just still so predictable. This must be down to Andy Robinson who, in my opinion, has largely wasted the time since the last World Cup to rebuild for the next one in that he still persists with older players and Plan A, but apparently no Plan B or Plan C .......... how much good will some of those older players be in eighteen months time? Clive Woodward tried it with some of those older players with the Lions a while ago - it didn't work with those players then yet Robinson still persists with some of them now. One even retired then came back and offered himself for international selection on the strength of a few good club games.
Your comments, Bean, are so relevant. England, to be a world force again, desperately need to develop some younger players at international level. A young Mathew Tait was hailed as England's saviour at centre, was Hensoned (legally within the rules!) in his first full international, and hasn't been heard of since. Did he deserve to be ditched and forgotten after one game? If so, then he was probably a pretty poor selection in the first place, or has Robinson lost his bottle for persevering with younger players?
Although not particularly a football fan to give one example I have seen the Arsenal manager, Arsene Wenger, bring Cesc Fabregas over from Spain (for nothing - on a free transfer) at the age of 16. Although he reportedly had problems settling in London, he has now played two seasons in the Premiership and is generally regarded as having developed into one of the best, probably the best, midfield player in the country. He is now set to form part of the nucleus of that team for many years to come. Another example which comes to mind is Will Carling. Appointed England rugby union captain at the age of 22, love him or hate him, it can be said that he fully repaid the confidence that was shown in him by leading the England team to many achievements over a number of years. I feel Robinson has left it too late to develop a 'new' team for the next World Cup if, indeed, he is capable of doing so.
...... and I dunno what Wales are going to do, 'cos as it stands at the moment they haven't got any coach at all after the end of this month. :roll:
Oh, and WELL PLAYED IRELAND. A fitting farewell to Lansdowne Road.
Cheers,
Trev.
With all the shenanigans going on within the WRU this season the Wales (my team) results have been, perhaps, fairly predictable. Anybody got a good reason why Mike Ruddock, the first Wales coach to achieve a Grand Slam for 27 years, should be ditched mid-campaign? Think about it - the WRU dispense with a coach (Ruddock) who would not commit himself beyond the present tournament and replace him with a coach (Johnson) who will not commit himself beyond the present tournament. What a mess! You couldn't make it up.
As for England in Paris yesterday ........... well ........... abysmal.
The old stagers really are starting to look like old men. Dawson, as usual, seemed to spend much of his time moaning to the referee, rather than getting on with the game, which he seemed unable to do with much effect. Dallaglio, when he came on, seemed unable to add much to the team's performance. Looking at England's team performance, big and powerful they may be, or may think they are, but they are just still so predictable. This must be down to Andy Robinson who, in my opinion, has largely wasted the time since the last World Cup to rebuild for the next one in that he still persists with older players and Plan A, but apparently no Plan B or Plan C .......... how much good will some of those older players be in eighteen months time? Clive Woodward tried it with some of those older players with the Lions a while ago - it didn't work with those players then yet Robinson still persists with some of them now. One even retired then came back and offered himself for international selection on the strength of a few good club games.
Your comments, Bean, are so relevant. England, to be a world force again, desperately need to develop some younger players at international level. A young Mathew Tait was hailed as England's saviour at centre, was Hensoned (legally within the rules!) in his first full international, and hasn't been heard of since. Did he deserve to be ditched and forgotten after one game? If so, then he was probably a pretty poor selection in the first place, or has Robinson lost his bottle for persevering with younger players?
Although not particularly a football fan to give one example I have seen the Arsenal manager, Arsene Wenger, bring Cesc Fabregas over from Spain (for nothing - on a free transfer) at the age of 16. Although he reportedly had problems settling in London, he has now played two seasons in the Premiership and is generally regarded as having developed into one of the best, probably the best, midfield player in the country. He is now set to form part of the nucleus of that team for many years to come. Another example which comes to mind is Will Carling. Appointed England rugby union captain at the age of 22, love him or hate him, it can be said that he fully repaid the confidence that was shown in him by leading the England team to many achievements over a number of years. I feel Robinson has left it too late to develop a 'new' team for the next World Cup if, indeed, he is capable of doing so.
...... and I dunno what Wales are going to do, 'cos as it stands at the moment they haven't got any coach at all after the end of this month. :roll:
Oh, and WELL PLAYED IRELAND. A fitting farewell to Lansdowne Road.
Cheers,
Trev.
Well done to France yesterday (believe me I hated saying that), its years since I have seen such an England performance, talk about a disfunctional team.
In my view Robinson should go, as Trev said he's wasted the last few years when he should have been rebuilding for the next WC.
We will certainly be no threat to any team if we continue to play like we have this tournament.
In my view Robinson should go, as Trev said he's wasted the last few years when he should have been rebuilding for the next WC.
We will certainly be no threat to any team if we continue to play like we have this tournament.
