Rubbish Joinery

[Phil Pascoe]

As the nearest Ikea to me is a 200 mile round trip they'll have to offer me more than a coffee.

 

[marcros]

As the nearest Ikea to me is a 200 mile round trip they'll have to offer me more than a coffee.

the bacon bun for a quid. :mrgreen:

 

[transatlantic]

I often wish there was some minimal quality that all manufacturers have to meet. If it won't last 25 years with normal wear and tear, then it shouldn't be produced.

The amount of energy that goes into making/transporting and then the inevitable scrapping of materials in 5 years is depressing.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Is that just for woodwork, or in general ? I don't think that would leave a lot of consumer electronics available !

 

[Jacob]

The war time utility standard was good. Stuff still around 70+ years later. Collectable in fact.
Actually some consumer electronics can be incredibly durable. 50 year old hoovers, valve radios etc. A lot of old hi-fi kit still around too.

 

[doctor Bob]

I often wish there was some minimal quality that all manufacturers have to meet. If it won't last 25 years with normal wear and tear, then it shouldn't be produced.

The amount of energy that goes into making/transporting and then the inevitable scrapping of materials in 5 years is depressing.

That basically takes fashion and trends out of the equation of everything, which is ridiculous. For example if we took this forums members and eliminated fashion then everybody would be in tatty jeans hoicked up to their nipples, held up with a big thick belt or braces, 4" of darned sock on show and a pair of hobnail boots, topped off with an ill fitting t shirt from the 70's. Ok hang on this example isn't really working, I've been to a few open days and this is the formal dress code............

 

[custard]

I often wish there was some minimal quality that all manufacturers have to meet. If it won't last 25 years with normal wear and tear, then it shouldn't be produced.

The amount of energy that goes into making/transporting and then the inevitable scrapping of materials in 5 years is depressing.

Do you value free markets and free choice more than you detest waste, or visa versa? You're free to make that choice with your own purchases, but imposing those values on others through legislation is a big step to take.

The only thing I can think of that might justify it is if buying crepe goods imposes hidden costs on other people. For example if the buyer of cheap tat got a price advantage, but someone else had to pick up the cost of landfill waste disposal?

So I get the argument when it comes to say outlawing certain non-recyclable plastics, but if someone wants to buy a rubbish sofa or a cheap as chips saw table then, as long as they've not been misled, I'd say that's their choice.

 

[LancsRick]

I actually embrace poor quality stuff being available, my issue is when it's disguised as something else. If I'm doing a job that only has to last as a stopgap solution then cheap is the order of the day. Ikea furniture (either standard or modified) is one of my favourites in that scenario.

What I have an issue with is when things are done poorly but people try to pass them off as adequate. I think some of the examples in this thread fall into that remit, but then again we have to decide what feature(s) it is that we're deeming low quality - there are times to judge on functionality, and there are times to judge on the level of skill and workmanship that go into them, but in some instances the lack of the latter doesn't mean a poor quality product.

 

[Jacob]

I often wish there was some minimal quality that all manufacturers have to meet. If it won't last 25 years with normal wear and tear, then it shouldn't be produced.

The amount of energy that goes into making/transporting and then the inevitable scrapping of materials in 5 years is depressing.

Do you value free markets and free choice more than you detest waste, or visa versa? You're free to make that choice with your own purchases, but imposing those values on others through legislation is a big step to take.
.....

It's a big step that has already been taken - there are all sorts of obligatory standards, for safety reasons mainly, but more is coming on line for environmental reasons - renewable resources, less energy etc.
It will only increase. Use less energy means producing more efficiently, or fewer goods. Something which lasts 10 years will consume half the materials and energy of something which has to be replaced at 5 years, a.o.t.b.e.
Utility furniture was often designed by the top names of the day and it showed.
nb "Free" markets don't really exist and never really did

 

[transatlantic]

I often wish there was some minimal quality that all manufacturers have to meet. If it won't last 25 years with normal wear and tear, then it shouldn't be produced.

The amount of energy that goes into making/transporting and then the inevitable scrapping of materials in 5 years is depressing.

That basically takes fashion and trends out of the equation of everything, which is ridiculous. For example if we took this forums members and eliminated fashion then everybody would be in tatty jeans hoicked up to their nipples, held up with a big thick belt or braces, 4" of darned sock on show and a pair of hobnail boots, topped off with an ill fitting t shirt from the 70's. Ok hang on this example isn't really working, I've been to a few open days and this is the formal dress code............

I was actually refering to the topic at hand, doors and fittings....

What's ridiculous is you jumping to clothing

 

[doctor Bob]

I often wish there was some minimal quality that all manufacturers have to meet. If it won't last 25 years with normal wear and tear, then it shouldn't be produced.

The amount of energy that goes into making/transporting and then the inevitable scrapping of materials in 5 years is depressing.

That basically takes fashion and trends out of the equation of everything, which is ridiculous. For example if we took this forums members and eliminated fashion then everybody would be in tatty jeans hoicked up to their nipples, held up with a big thick belt or braces, 4" of darned sock on show and a pair of hobnail boots, topped off with an ill fitting t shirt from the 70's. Ok hang on this example isn't really working, I've been to a few open days and this is the formal dress code............

I was actually refering to the topic at hand, doors and fittings....

What's ridiculous is you jumping to clothing

Crikey this is a very difficult audience to try and do comedy to .............

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Crikey this is a very difficult audience to try and do comedy to .............

Well, not everyone here is always hard to make chuckle. You've managed it for me recently in this thread and in the fancy dovetail thread to which we both contributed. I admit to having a bit of a soft spot for IKEA's products; certainly their business model and work methods (if that's the right term) I think of as a something of a wonder to behold. Their ability to satisfy the needs of customers economically, usually repeatedly I suspect, is really very clever. I can't say if it's all good or bad, but IKEA just seems to keeping rumbling on and growing bigger. Slainte.

 

[D_W]

This arrived in the post this morning

Could never compete with those prices.....short term anyway.

Those prices seem to have been drawn from a hat. Even ignoring the low price level and just comparing one with another, to me there seems to be little obvious correlation between the time & materials required to make each door and the price being charged.

Taking any of those Howden doors as an example, what would it cost to have a decent door and frame made "properly"?

Where are they made? We've got plenty of that kind of thing going on in the states - if the products go to higher end, it's referred to as prestige pricing (everything's actually cheap, but you differentiate price levels to target certain customers. That way, you get to keep the low end of the market as well as the mid to high end).

There are some very stupid examples of it, though, like cadillac selling a rebadged chevy volt (which is already expensive for what it is) for nearly double the price. And they did manage to sell a few, too. Essentially a plug in version of the GM econo platform (cruze) sold for $70k or a little more.

 

[transatlantic]

Crikey this is a very difficult audience to try and do comedy to .............

My bad

 

[Benchwayze]

Never mind Bob,

The only part of that description that isn't me is the socks! I can't wear them any more. Can't find any that don't cut into my diabetic legs!

:? :?

John

 

[D_W]

Ikea is a typical retail outlet people turn their noses up at because "it's not made properly".
Yet it's functional, invariably stylish, often inovative and incredible value.
I don't see why this makes it rubbish. Disposable possibly but at £6 for a coffee table why not.

100% agree. The options before ikea were other tape veneer particleboard furniture of even lower quality. Ikea serves a purpose - not everyone is enthusiastic about furniture or envisions giving it to their kids.

From an economic standpoint, it makes more sense - buy the furniture, save the difference for retirement. You'll be FAR ahead (I have little of the stuff, but recognize It'd make more fiscal sense to have gone that direction than making some furniture and purchasing true locally made solid furniture for other items). The bent ply ikea items will probably outlast me. For damned sure, I could never have made a comfortable bent ply chair and upholstered it with leather for $180.

 

[D_W]

This weather has played havoc the the equilibrium moisture content of all par pine/ spruce. Most of it is as twisted as a corkscrew.

If it would've been sawn properly, that wouldn't happen. I don't know how you get "sawn properly" on a regular basis, though.

There's a ton of older pine trim here in the states that has fared very well other than for denting (it dents easily, of course).

The standard now is probably MDF for where it would have been used. The shock to me is that MDF type products are becoming standard of spec homes for exterior use. Maybe I missed that and it's decades old practice, but MDF never resists expanding when moisture cycles are involved. FIL paid for a mid-rated builder (think 1 1/2 times per square foot of a typical corporate builder) and they used finger joint poplar for all of his sill work and MDF for all of the mouldings in his house. All painted. The wood around the window areas was an "upgrade" at that, too. In a decade, the finger joints will telegraph through the paint. I guess he can at least sand and paint them.

 

[D_W]

As the nearest Ikea to me is a 200 mile round trip they'll have to offer me more than a coffee.

You can pick up a few skankas there...........





..I would've thought that was swedish for questionable women, but apparently it's cooking pots.

 

[El Barto]

Here's some rubbish cabinet making to go with the rubbish joinery.

I spotted these chairs in a client's house, apparently they weren't cheap (and based on the other furniture in their house I doubt they shop at Oak Furniture Land), but look at how they're made. The back leg is built up from shorter Oak staves and then machined to shape.

That is gross. But very indicative of what people will accept. I imagine 99% of the people buying furniture like this (from Habitat, Heals et al) will not notice nor care that it was made that way. It's a shame, especially when you consider the prices these "higher end" places are charging...

 

[Jacob]

Here's some rubbish cabinet making to go with the rubbish joinery.

I spotted these chairs in a client's house, apparently they weren't cheap (and based on the other furniture in their house I doubt they shop at Oak Furniture Land), but look at how they're made. The back leg is built up from shorter Oak staves and then machined to shape.

We've got an IKEA GJORA double bed
https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/bed ... -49129997/
Ingenious construction - not a single piece of wood in there longer than about 300mm.
This dramatically reduces waste (imagine making it out of solid), ensures consistent and controlled timber quality and keeps the price down.
nb instead of headboard you drape a cloth over the top rail (decorative quilt, whatever) and lean back against the wall.
It works really well, can't knock it so far.
Building up from staves is inspired industrial design and manufacturing!

...people buying furniture like this (from Habitat, Heals et al) will not notice nor care that it was made that way...

Not me squire; am interested in and know clever design and construction when I see it, not to mention value for money!
A traditionalist old chap whittling/wittering/tut-tutting in a shed might not approve though :roll: :lol: