Router for CNC machine

[Sporky McGuffin]

If you are looking at a three phase motor you can get a single to three phase invertor from ABB, Mitsi and a few others that will also deliver variable speed, if you look at the other option of digital phase convertors you lose the variable speed aspect.

So that adds another £300 (pretty much the cost of a decent router) on!

What would you consider low RPM ? You are right that they will lose torque as speed reduces, below about 6000 RPM my spindle wouldn't cut butter, warm butter at that lol
You can get the Chinese spindles from a UK source but guessing you might struggle with any sort of warranty, I have a 2.2KW water cooled spindle with ER20 Collet chuck so full range of collets from 1mm up to 12.7mm plus imperial at 1/8 3/16, 1/4, 3/8, & 1/2" . Think it was a half set of imperial I bought, wanted 1/8, 1/4 & 1/2 inch, then found I needed 3/8 for thread milling bit so it was cheaper to buy what I have rather than the 4 I needed lol, not sure if I will ever use the 3/16"
You would probably be OK with an air cooled spindle in the UK although I have heard that they are noisier than water cooled, not sure if that is true as I have also been told that is only true if the fan is mounted at the top of the spindle as most of the cheaper ones are.

At 5000 RPM I can surface timber with interlocked grain with the 52mm bit, taking about 0.75mm off at 1500mm/min. I don't care about the router noise because I've got a dust extractor running, and cutting timber is horribly noisy anyway

Any suggestion of suppliers to look at?

 

[martin.pearson]

So that adds another £300 (pretty much the cost of a decent router) on!



At 5000 RPM I can surface timber with interlocked grain with the 52mm bit, taking about 0.75mm off at 1500mm/min. I don't care about the router noise because I've got a dust extractor running, and cutting timber is horribly noisy anyway

Any suggestion of suppliers to look at?

I can't really help with suppliers, I bought my spindle about 6 years ago from a supplier who was recommended at the time on mycncuk which is a build forum, Ollie78 has already mentioned it in one of his posts, yer I get that when you are cutting & have dust extraction running then the sound of the router isn't that much of a factor lol. I am not sure you would be able to run a spindle that slowly, I certainly can't run my spindle at 5000 rpm, it probably wouldn't even kick over at that speed lol, for surfacing I normally use a 1.75 inch bit, I actually have a larger bit but it has 6 wings & have never taken the time to try & get it set up correctly for surfacing.
Comes down to what your machine is capable of to some extent, you would need a faster spindle speed to get the torque required for a large bit which means you would probably need to run a lot faster than 1500 mm/m.

 

[Ollie78]

I've looked into the spindle thing but kept hitting obstacles. I'm not installing 3 phase, and I use bits from 52mm down to 0.3mm needing collets from 3.15mm to 12.7mm.

I can't find a spindle that meets my needs, from a UK source with a warranty. The single phase ones don't have the torque at low rpm.

Whenever I've asked no-one has been willing/able to point to a UK supplier. By contrast my Bosch router has plentiful spares (not that I've actually needed them), easily available collets, is air cooled, and runs on single phase. It also fits in my router table and a load of jigs.

No one has recommended a Uk supplier as many buy direct from China on Ali express etc

Dean is trustworthy and won`t sell rubbish. Link to a spindle set on his shop below.
https://www.jazzcnc.co.uk/product-page/24k-rpm-2-2kw-water-cooled-spindle-set
My 2.2kw has no issue with a 50 mm surfacing bit and Er20 collets go from 13mm down to 1mm.

I think there is some confusion, the VFD just plugs in to normal 240v the motor itself might be 3 phase but it is not the same as 415v 3 phase if thats what you are thinking.


Ollie

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

I think there is some confusion, the VFD just plugs in to normal 240v the motor itself might be 3 phase but it is not the same as 415v 3 phase if thats what you are thinking.

Ah - no one's ever made that clear before - thank you.

 

[Dave the woodworker]

I may have a problem with the weight of a water cooled spindle as my upper limit is 3kg. This is going to be my first CNC, a workbee probably due to space requirements. I want a good router that will last a while.

 

[martin.pearson]

Dean is trustworthy and won`t sell rubbish. Link to a spindle set on his shop below.

Funny enough it was Dean who recommended a seller to me a few years ago, didn't realise he had his own shop now, he was building a CNC for another guy I know at the time so he knows what he is doing.

 

[Dlyxover]

I have a 2.2Kw water cooled spindle on my CNC.

No complaints with it so far, had it since April.
Another upside of going for a spindle is you can control it from you g code, you can start and stop it and set the speed.

some videos on my instagram

Lignum instagram

 

[ShadowCast]

I may have a problem with the weight of a water cooled spindle as my upper limit is 3kg. This is going to be my first CNC, a workbee probably due to space requirements. I want a good router that will last a while.

I'm using the Katsu trim router that they (Ooznest) supply.. my thinking was at £59.50, it'll get me up and running for little cost and I'll upgrade in the future, if the Katsu fails. Their starter set of bits comes with an 1/8th inch collet, so you'll have that plus the 1/4 inch that comes with the router. So far, no problems, I have the 1m x 1.5m Z1+, I built an enclosure around it, so the router noise isn't that bad (don't laugh but I have it set up in the living room... alongside my understanding wife!) and the dust is contained.

 

[Dave the woodworker]

F

I'm using the Katsu trim router that they (Ooznest) supply.. my thinking was at £59.50, it'll get me up and running for little cost and I'll upgrade in the future, if the Katsu fails. Their starter set of bits comes with an 1/8th inch collet, so you'll have that plus the 1/4 inch that comes with the router. So far, no problems, I have the 1m x 1.5m Z1+, I built an enclosure around it, so the router noise isn't that
bad (don't laugh but I have it set up in the living room... alongside my understanding wife!) and the dust is contained.

Funny enough, I plan on having mine in the bedroom. I live on my own so no wife to upset. An enclosure will be essential, which I shall make.

 

[Dave the woodworker]

I had a look at Dean's website. His CNC looks really good and sturdy. Sadly it is a bit off my budget.

Does anyone use a Jenny spindle. If so what are your thoughts on it.

 

[sploo]

A K2 3295.

Do you mean the K2 3925? Got one myself (bought new circa 2006). Shame that K2 no longer exists.

I used a US Porter Cable 892 router for many years; which worked well with a 110v building site transformer. A while back I changed to one of the Chinese (eBay sourced) 2.2kW spindles (air cooled) with a VFD, and don't regret it at all (it's much quieter). I assume the water cooled spindles would probably be even quieter, but I didn't want to bother with the water tank and pumps.

As already noted; these VFDs (e.g. the popular Huanyang HY02D223B) will take 50Hz 240Vac single phase, and convert it to variable frequency 240Vac three phase; suitable for these spindles. They do also do 380V->380V and 240V->380V models, but the former is suitable for most home users.

 

[murphy]

This is the one I got about a year ago and it's still going good and used most days, a bit expensive but it is UK based in case of any warranty problems
I did have a Dewalt router and 2 Makita's but all died young, I don't think these small routers are designed for continuous use
https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/index.php...W Water cooled ER20 with Matching VFD + Mount

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Do you mean the K2 3925? Got one myself (bought new circa 2006). Shame that K2 no longer exists.

Probably, yes! Bed about 600x1200mm, a few silly design flaws but still a decent machine. Awful electronics though - the Gecko stepper controllers had about a quarter of the cooling needed, they were just bolted to a lump of aluminium. No fans, no fins, and not nearly big enough. The wiring was shonky too - far too small a gauge for the current the steppers need.

 

[sploo]

Probably, yes! Bed about 600x1200mm, a few silly design flaws but still a decent machine. Awful electronics though - the Gecko stepper controllers had about a quarter of the cooling needed, they were just bolted to a lump of aluminium. No fans, no fins, and not nearly big enough. The wiring was shonky too - far too small a gauge for the current the steppers need.

Funny you should mention that; as I've had to replace two of the Geckos on mine.

A while back I built a new control box that has more space and vents for cooling, easier access for 4 Geckos (I added a 4th axis), and replaced some of the wiring with shielded cables.

The VFD and control box mains cables run via RSEN-2030 mains filters, and everything shares the same ground plane. There's also an earth line (black cable in the image below) that's screwed into the chassis of the CNC machine itself.

Installed in the cabinet:

 

[sploo]

BTW On the subject of grounding; I've found the 4 pin connectors on those Chinese spindles tend to only have the three U, V, W lines connected. The fourth pin is not usually connected to anything. I'd highly advise running a lead from that pin to the spindle body, and (with a shielded 4 wire cable) connect that pin to your VFD earth, along with clamping the shield to the same earth plane.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Nice! I rebuilt mine too. I'll post some pictures when I'm back home.

 

[martin.pearson]

I have an old Gerber System 48 which had a US porter cable router when I got it, router was completely shot but the previous owner used it to cut aluminium almost exclusively so obviously routers do work lol The electronics were a problem & the guy had spent over £2000 trying to get it fixed, he was losing money so just bought a brand new AXYZ & I got his old machine for basically scrap value. I was going to fit Gecko drives but they were quite hard to get hold of in the UK at the time so I went with Leadshine AM882 drives on Dean's recommendation.
Problem I have now is that I need to move workshops & not sure how I am going to move it, Last time I had to strip it down into 3 parts gantry, table & frame & still each bit was a struggle for 2 guys.

 

[Lefley]

There are some good router lifts available that take a 102mm diameter body, (4 & 3/16 inches) and for a router table having a manual Z axis is not a problem. I will need to look into these in more detail.


If you are looking at a three phase motor you can get a single to three phase invertor from ABB, Mitsi and a few others that will also deliver variable speed, if you look at the other option of digital phase convertors you lose the variable speed aspect

Most good lathes are three phase motors with an inverter for just that reason. Getting constant torque at all speeds.

 

[Dave the woodworker]

I know that the workbee is only a hobby machine but would be interested on people's thoughts about it.

Also are there any plans out there on building one yourself. I should add that I do not intend to make very large items, mainly signs and small gift items.

I have even thought about just making a two axis machine to draw out the design and making templates, then cutting by hand.

 

[sploo]

Most good lathes are three phase motors with an inverter for just that reason. Getting constant torque at all speeds.

Qualified yes; torque often falls away at lower speeds, plus there can be issues of motor cooling at low rpm (unless the motor is designed for that).

Also, reducing the speed with gears or belts increases the torque (ideal for slow, heavy cuts); which you won't get with a VFD. I say all that - and I'm about to put a motor + VFD into a lathe!