Rounding off Plane Iron Corners

[thetyreman]

I do round off the corners very slightly on my blades but mainly on the smoothers, because it prevents tram lines on the wood.

 

[Ttrees]

@Sgian Dubh Strange why such an accomplished author wouldn't be interested in such, nor haven't read or seen the evidence in post and video format, in say the last decade,
or why they'd even look at such a thread in the first place, with such an opinion.

Me thinks I've been had, that's whats I get for being a naive numpty!

Cheerio
Tom

 

[Adam W.]

Pretty easy to spot the difference, seeing as the shaving won't curl as readily, to not at all
depending on preference, i.e the results achieved.

Not to mention other obvious things present, like the shaving being waxy, crinkly and burnished in appearance.
Perhaps one might have other ideas as to how to achieve such brightness,
it ain't a rub of candle, nor any other wax.
It's not scraping either, should one be able to view @Pabs picture...
But perhaps yet still invisible for those whom choose to willingly have their head in the sand?

Tom

The shavings from my wooden profile planes is straight, even though they don't have a back iron/cap iron or whatever you want to call it

 

[Ttrees]

Not sure where you're going with that...
Can you do the same with dry squirrely timbers with a Bailey,
and plane from either direction,
or is it strictly Follansbee style, cleft timbers with high MC kinda thing.

In that case, I guess the flexibility of the wet oak makes it resistant to shavings curling thus retaining the shape, so a similar looking thing but not the same.

I've planed a select QS dry piece of what I guess is likely sessile, could be t'other one though...
which wouldn't have been a walk in the park without using the cap iron.
i.e, as is normally suggested by anyone who has a grasp of this,
for use a Bailey/double iron plane that is.

Simple as you can get really, even though you made it sound as though having a panel plane and a smoother sound like extravagance.

Tom

 

[Adam W.]

I'm not talking about flat bottom planes like smoothers, it was just an observation about what the shaving looks like from a profile moulding plane with a single iron on any old wood.

That was all.

 

[Ttrees]

I'm not talking about flat bottom planes like smoothers, it was just an observation about what the shaving looks like from a profile moulding plane with a single iron on any old wood.

That was all.

any old wood what might be selected for the task at hand...
and what I might chance guessing, (as I've little interest in moulding planes) is from a plane with a steeper than 45 bed.

I fail to see the reason for argument, is it just because I used the term "influenced"
Seems the best wording for such, as it suggests ones cap iron is actually working,
and by that I don't just mean stiffening the cutting iron, which is all a double iron plane could do with the corners taken off.

Perhaps you might be arguing a differing point, i.e that it might work well with riven stock,
or to use it as strictly roughing tool for the time being, and Pabs will get his moneys worth.
Makes sense if that suits.

Tom

 

[Pabs]

sorry it was an honest question as I learn how to use handtools

 

[RobNichols]

I do round off the corners very slightly on my blades but mainly on the smoothers, because it prevents tram lines on the wood.

Surpressing tram lines is my understanding of the purpose of rounding the blade edges.

However, I have a slightly different approach. On smoothing planes I find the slight camber I put on the blade by applying extra pressure on each side of the blade for a few strokes during sharpening, is enough to prevent tram lines as the cuts are so shallow. Where I'll round off the corners as shown in the original posting, is on my planes where I expect to be making deep cuts. Specifically the jack plane I have set up for stock removal.

 

[G S Haydon]

Thanks for linking the video. Apologies for anyone who watched it .

It was posted in the hope that it might tease a few that haven't experimented to give it a try.

But, you don't need to. I just find it odd that people say things like a cap iron only stiffens the blade etc.

 

[G S Haydon]

Pabs, keep asking questions . You might get a lot of varied answers but there's normally something helpful posted.

 

[Stevekane]

I do round off the corners very slightly on my blades but mainly on the smoothers, because it prevents tram lines on the wood.

Would this work with an electric planer which are very prone to leaving tram lines on even the finest settings?
Steve.

 

[Hornbeam]

Influenced shaving. Well I have learn a new name for something I would just have called plane set up
One interesting point is that while most people might think to adjust the cap iron forward or back slightly I wonder how many people consider the angle of the cap iron and what that is doing to a shaving.

 

[mancmc]

This was a practice primarily for “Smoothing planes and not “Jack planes”.
Smoothing planes are generally used for the wider boards, they took an exaggerated, concave shaving and would be easier to sand down afterwards.
Whereas the Jack, Edging plane would be truing the edge of a board when the plane blade is wider than the timber.

 

[raffo]

The rounding doesn't need to be as exaggerated as in the OP's picture to avoid tracks. Imparting a slight camber is also an option, but it needs to be coupled with shallow cuts. If the blade is projected too much, tracks can form.

With some care, the surface can be left so that no sanding is necessary. You can check for tracks by sighting the board at a shallow angle. If they're still there, you can try to plane them off or sand the board.

Whichever method you choose to avoid tracks, it shouldn't interfere with the cap iron.

 

[Hornbeam]

Maybe controversial but I generally grind/sharpen all my planes with a slight camber except for my No 4 and 4/1/2 which I grind/sharpen almost straigh with slightly rounded corners. The thinking is that when using a smooting plane I am working on larger flat surfaces doing a final clean off with very little blade projection

 

[Ttrees]

Thanks for linking the video. Apologies for anyone who watched it .

It was posted in the hope that it might tease a few that haven't experimented to give it a try.

But, you don't need to. I just find it odd that people say things like a cap iron only stiffens the blade etc.

No bothers Graham.
Let's hope that the OP realises that the setting he has for his plane,
is very much beyond what the gurus will ever suggest.
Very easy for a newcomer to become under hypnosis of sorts, because of the vested interest.
(just incase he missed that bit earlier)

This misinformation continues from all sorts, even on the forums, as evident here.
Pride or the taking of offense/willful ignorance from most because some Yankee doodle dandy came round about ten years ago and showed us what the passage of time/advent of machinery had made forgotten.
Folks don't like those types of know it all's, and most seemingly wish to stay ignorant,
and dig their heels in further, because of David's scathing delivery. lol.

Then the masses of seasoned pros claim to have good understanding when challenged, because of some auld book, which is vague at best, (not even a paragraph)
When anyone who's been round long enough will know rightly that David was spot on,
as is evident should one look at any/every video before D_W's efforts to make this widely known,

Take Klausz as a prime example, not sure if he'd be impressed either, but perhaps he
might be able to deal with the delivery better than folks here.
If one looks at his old videos, one can see how sure he was that the walnut crotch he had,
couldn'vt be planed, and ve must shcrape dis now.
Had someone came along and showed him how to set up his Bailey properly,
then I reckon he would be instantly converted (at the time)
as efficient working as can be, was his bag.
Love to see Frank upload a wee vid sometime, he seems like an honest guy to me,
which is more than can be said for the state of affairs now.

More power to yer elbow Graham, newcomers need someone to put them straight.
Though I think the "shorts" might destroy youtube, so very reluctant to encourage that.

Regards
Tom

 

[Adam W.]

Oh dear!

Most of what you're talking about is readily available in George Ellis' Modern Practical Joinery and has been for a very long time, it's just a matter of looking for it.

 

[Ttrees]

Who's read that though... if it's a lot of folks, then seemingly it wouldn't be worth reading
if looking for that information.
Is there mention of all things what I've parroted in this thread regarding the cap iron, if not then likely a lousy source of info to learn from.

I needn't bother looking it up, to even mention if its worth reading, should it be similar to the planecraft snippet you've posted before.
David W's extensive free videos and articles on the subject, likely are much better really,
for one who want's to do more than pretend.


Edit, for one whom is interested, here's the link to the George Ellis book, chapter 2 which is on page 24.
https://www.woodworkersuk.co.uk/books/modern-practical-joinery-g-ellis-1908.pdf
Spoiler alert...
a load of auld hay in regards to getting clear information.

Tom

 

[Ttrees]

Influenced shaving. Well I have learn a new name for something I would just have called plane set up
One interesting point is that while most people might think to adjust the cap iron forward or back slightly I wonder how many people consider the angle of the cap iron and what that is doing to a shaving.

Maybe controversial but I generally grind/sharpen all my planes with a slight camber except for my No 4 and 4/1/2 which I grind/sharpen almost straigh with slightly rounded corners. The thinking is that when using a smooting plane I am working on larger flat surfaces doing a final clean off with very little blade projection

What angle do you hone your cap iron at, if you can get away with rounding corners,
since you more or less claim to make use of the cap iron?

Sounds like your talking auld hay aswell.

This was a practice primarily for “Smoothing planes and not “Jack planes”.
Smoothing planes are generally used for the wider boards, they took an exaggerated, concave shaving and would be easier to sand down afterwards.
Whereas the Jack, Edging plane would be truing the edge of a board when the plane blade is wider than the timber.

Certainly not, and is the usual misunderstanding of most folks.
Utilization of the cap iron isn't just for smoothing.

Maybe you folks think this is too complicated, but that can be discounted as @Pabs is
on the cusp of figuring this out, since he's doing it already,
which is beyond any of the youtube gurus rhetoric,
and to get the truth, you need find someone without vested interests, like David or Graham, or , Dusty splinters, Brian Holcombe even Mr Chickadee.


It's all very easy, provided the three rules are adhered to.
Most are too proud to admit their failings, and refuse to "learn" this.
and it's probably offensive to mention a self confessed rank beginner has got this.

All the best folks.
Tom

 

[Sgian Dubh]

@Sgian Dubh Strange why such an accomplished author wouldn't be interested in such, nor haven't read or seen the evidence in post and video format, in say the last decade,

Tom, as a woodworker that uses planes amongst other woodworking tools my interest in this thread was prompted because of the 'influenced shavings' descriptor. That I've had things published over the years is not relevant that I can see. I admit that I seldom watch woodworking videos on places like YouTube or wherever, so the words and filmed guidance of such names as Cosman, Sellers, and others frequently mentioned on forums don't reach me directly very much. I'm also nowadays not a big reader of woodworking articles, whether they be in print, blogs, and perhaps other formats. That I now spend little time reading or viewing such information doesn't indicate a lack of interest in me about woodworking techniques and knowledge. In my early days as a learning furniture maker I avidly read books, woodworking journals, and so on. Reading about woodworking and viewing woodworking videos by contemporary authors and presenters for the most part mainly repeats information I absorbed quite a number of years ago.

But yes, new stuff does come along, and sometimes the new stuff is old stuff that's been forgotten. It can't be denied that although I was aware of such techniques as close set cap irons can help to control tear out because that's what I was taught by grumpy old codgers. I was also taught how to tune up a plane through such techniques as flattening the sole, good seating of the frog, flattening the flat side of the iron, matching the cap iron to the flat side of the blade, adjusting the slope of the leading edge of the cap iron, and so on all with the intention of leading to improved or optimum performance.

One person whose views on planing topics I did pay attention to was David Weaver. He said some interesting things on another forum about all the stuff in the above paragraph, and more. We eventually corresponded directly about the topic of reducing or eliminating tearout with hand planes and I experimented through taking on board stuff he said (including the horribly named, but effective, 'unicorning' thing) and I found he made valid points. Basically, through our discussions I was able to get my smoothing planes to work better again than they had been working. I don't recall David talking about 'influenced shavings'. But maybe he did and it's simply slipped my mind.

So, I'm not incurious about woodworking subjects, I like to think I'm selective. What did get my curiosity was the influenced shavings descriptor. I'd seen it bandied about, but I didn't know what it was meant to refer to. Now I think I know: basically it seems to mean how you set up your plane 'influences' how it performs, including the 'influence' it has on the shavings (type of, for e.g.) and this has an 'influence' on tear out, or lack of it.

Still, I'm never going to go straight from planing to polishing. There's always some sanding has to be done between planing and polishing. Quite often in my working life there's been little or no hand planing involved in a woodworking project. It's been a case of straight from sanding to polishing, but that's common in a commercial woodworking environment, and I've done plenty of that in my working life alongside one-off custom pieces where the hand tools play a much greater role. Slainte.