resawing on a basato 3?

[johnbb99]

That is what I'm trying to do at the moment.
110mm [4-5"] oak planks, <1m long, and about 20mm thick, and i'm tryig to get three out of each, c 5-6mm thick.
I'm using a new 1/2" blade from Hamilton-Beaverstock [3 tpi] .
A week ago the first plank went through OK, a bit of wander, but no real complaining from the machine.
Yesterday I started to cut another and 6" into the first cut I get a succession of bangs from the machine. Rather alarming. I stop and check the machine inside and out. Nothing seems wrong, but i notice the rear bearings are 2-3mm from the back of the blade, not 0.5mm where I had set them (and yes I did tighten up the clamping Allen screw) . I tried again with the same result.
Has anyone had a similar experience?
Am I expecting too much of this machine, or should it be able to manage a job like this?
Specifications are these:-
Model: Scheppach 3h Vario
Motor power: 1.1hp
Cutting speeds: 370/750rpm
Height under guides: 207mm (160mm official cut height)
Throat width: 306mm
Table size: 548 x 400mm

I also noticed that at the upper set of blade guides, the left hand one is screwed in so far [to reach the side of the blade] that i cannot [or only just] engage the lock nut for the adjusting screw. In other words, it appears that the guides are being held too far to the left of the line of the blade.
I do feel I literally spend more time fixing problems with it than using it usefully.
I've also noticed that the machine vibrates (I was temped to write 'jigs about') when running but not sawing.
I predict a chorus of responses saying buy a blade from Tuffsaws, and try it then. Fair enough, but am I asking too much of the machine, and was I unlucky and got a 'Friday' one?
Thanks
John

 

[Bodgers]

I have the same machine. I don't have a problem with vibrations - in fact I bought this after returning a Makita lb1200f due to bad vibration, and I find the Scheppach to be very smooth.

'Bangs' don't sound right to me, but I'm no expert. Could be just the motor stalling due to it not liking the feed-rate though.

I would vacuum thoroughly all the wheels and remove any compressed wood dust. This can help with the vibrations.

I would also check blade tension. I actually had to replace the tensioner handle on mine as the handle snapped under tensioning. It might be worth stepping down a blade width size as well to see if this makes a difference as the wider blades are harder to tension properly.

It sounds like your guides need attention. I have mine set so that they are pretty much touching the blade at rest.

 

[johnbb99]

Thanks for your response.
The machine kept running, so I don't believe it stalled.
Yes, I've recently gave all the insides, in particular the wheel tyres, a thorough clean.
I too set the guides to be a hair's width away from the blade. I'm not a 'natural' mechanic (I gave up fiddling with cars a long time ago for that reason!) but I try hard to follow the magazine and book advice on setting up the machine correctly. You're supposed to leave a gap just big enough for a cigarette paper, but I find the blade is moving more than that as you rotate the wheels. What can you do?

Have you used yours to saw 4" thick hardwood, and if so, how did it go?
Thanks

 

[Ttrees]

You're supposed to leave a gap just big enough for a cigarette paper, but I find the blade is moving more than that as you rotate the wheels. What can you do?

Thanks

It sounds possibly like its a new machine to me? ....If it is, and in warranty, then this could be important, as some manufacturers regards
some things like adjusting the lower wheel to be voiding the warranty. (from experience I've had before)
So if your worried, send them an email, and ask them if adjustment of the bolts for the lower wheel for instance, voids the warranty, or anything else that can be adjusted either....in black and white from say manufacturers CEO or top banana, likewise with the retailer.
BTW those folks whom made the saw, or retailers might not be too happy about you talking about it online.
I got an email back saying something to the effect of the blind leading the blind on these forums =D>
With that in mind, go through a methodical approach on setting this up.


There should be no side to side movement whatsoever when turning those wheels by hand or when powered, so you can set those
rollers to nearly pinch the blade, as you say a rizzla paper or two, likewise with the thrust bearing guide needs to be close so the set of the teeth cant come into contact with the rollers, as this will damage both blade and guide possibly breaking the crappy casting that holds the roller on.
It sounds to me like that happened, so if it has, you need a new blade.
If this flutter was happening before the thud, which I presume it was, you know its not the blade ,so you may use the blade for
setting up, though you will never be sure about anything till you get another blade to compare it with
The new blade will be needed for cutting anyway

Forget Mr Snodgrass, as you have a machine that needs to be setup, by that I mean not just a case of new blade and a bit of tracking.

.take pics all steps taken along the way if warranty is concerned and make sure you have the go ahead.

1 Plum the machine with a string and a weight ..
Have you noticed any inconsistent sawdust tracks on the tires?
Did you get those wheels coplanar?

Adjustment of the jacking screw bolts on the lower wheel could solve this, and be reversible compared to what could possibly be needed.
If you look up lower wheel adjustment of Rikon bandsaws, you will find a helpful chart with instructions on what happens if you adjust them.
There are sequences of adjustment to try out, which hopefully may sort the issue out.
Before you do adjust jacking screws, take a piccy of the position of the wheel shaft for reference.

If that dont work revert to coplanar and test for high spots or dips on the tires, they may need dressing
I have posted piccys of me doing so to my Griggio, clamping a plane iron to the cabinet to shave the tires to make a consistent bandwheel.
It may be on sawmill creek too, if ya cant find it.
Good luck

Tom Trees

 

[sunnybob]

The first cut was ok, then the rest werent?
The rear bearing is further away from the blade than you set it?
The left guide is at full travel to meet the blade?

Sounds like the guides are not located properly and the assembly moved under load.
With the machine disconnected, push the blade backwards till it meets the rear bearings and look at the teeth.
If the teeth are inside the side bearing area, you have squeezed the teeth closed and the blade is ruined.

Using the old blade, practice setting the bearings so the blade is central, and the rear bearings (top AND bottom) stop the blade teeth from being squeezed flat.
THEN get a new blade from tuffsaws.

 

[johnbb99]

Tom, no it's not new; well out of g#tee.
Who is Mr Snodgrass?
I don't know if the wheels are coplanar, but I'm assuming they were set to be so.
Remember it cut ok previously.

Sunnybob: I think you're right (tho' I can't check as the rear bearing has been moved since anyway.)
Time for a new blade and some careful resetting and serious tightening.
Thanks
John

 

[Selwyn]

Start at the beginning - make sure the wheels are co-planer. I have a basato 3 and its not that strongly built and my wheels were out of plane.

When that is done - tighten up the blade and remember you may need to adapt the tension mechanism as its crap to get it tight enough

Then set your guides - which are also pretty crap

 

[Selwyn]

Start at the beginning - make sure the wheels are co-planer. I have a basato 3 and its not that strongly built and my wheels were out of plane.

When that is done - tighten up the blade and remember you may need to adapt the tension mechanism as its crap to get it tight enough

Then set your guides - which are also pretty crap

 

[johnbb99]

Thanks Selwyn. (I've never noticed printed advice mentioning checking the wheels are coplanar, but ok.)
So do I need to remove the table, as I assume you find a long enough straight edge, and line it up against both wheel rims...?
I've just had a look, and you can check the left side of the wheels without removing the table, and with the lower guides out of the way, I think you can check the back rims on the RHS. But maybe it's worth taking the table off to make it easier. Any hints or tips?
At the left, mine is a couple of mm out, so I'd better deal with it anyway.
I have found the cylinder with 4 bolts at the back of the lower wheel , presumably that is where you make any adjustments?

How do you get on cutting 4" hardwood on your finely-fettled machine, Selwyn?

Thanks for all your help, everyone.

 

[johnbb99]

BTW, I don't remember having trouble setting the upper guides before, - it's as if they have moved to the right, but I really can't see how that could have happened.

 

[johnbb99]

I've just realised, the tracking is set by tilting the top wheel.
So how do you check for coplanar? (remove all tilt, then see if they line up...??)

 

[custard]

That is what I'm trying to do at the moment.
110mm [4-5"] oak planks, <1m long, and about 20mm thick, and i'm tryig to get three out of each, c 5-6mm thick.

That's almost never going to have a happy ending.

With a bone dry, quarter sawn, straight grained, properly kilned board you might, just might, get two finished pieces at 5-6mm from a 20mm donor board, but three is too ambitious.

I do this all day long, it's more about the board and the blade than it is about the bandsaw. And unless those two things are dead right I'd be tempted to just plane down a 20mm board, alternating the passes to remove a consistent amount from both faces, to deliver a 6mm final component.

The truth is that much of the Oak sold today has been forced through the kilning process a bit too quickly, which sets up all sorts of internal tensions that get released during deep ripping, added to which the great majority of boards sold are flat sawn, where as for deep ripping you'd really be better off with quarter sawn. This means the average guy in his home workshop attempting deep ripping for the first time has already got the odds stacked against him.

 

[sunnybob]

John, by your posts I see you are not particularly mechanical.
I STRONGLY advise against you moving the bottom wheel!

Its only needed if the previous owner has farted around with it, and i would rate it as very difficult for a novice to check it and true it. this is only needed if the blade wont stay on the wheel, which does not seem to be your problem. You made a good cut before the bearing went walkabout.

set your old blade up a couple times as practice runs. Make sure it stays in the position you put it on the top wheel. tension it so that you can "ping" it to a nice sound like a guitar string. Play with some scrap wood and dont worry about a wandering blade because when you buy the new one it wont.

By all means increase your knowledge by reading about co planar wheels, but i think its much too early in the fault finding to move that wheel.

 

[custard]

I STRONGLY advise against you moving the bottom wheel!....its much too early in the fault finding to move that wheel.

+1

 

[johnbb99]

OK! Leaving the wheel as it is will save a lot of hassle.

 

[Selwyn]

Thanks Selwyn. (I've never noticed printed advice mentioning checking the wheels are coplanar, but ok.)
So do I need to remove the table, as I assume you find a long enough straight edge, and line it up against both wheel rims...?
I've just had a look, and you can check the left side of the wheels without removing the table, and with the lower guides out of the way, I think you can check the back rims on the RHS. But maybe it's worth taking the table off to make it easier. Any hints or tips?
At the left, mine is a couple of mm out, so I'd better deal with it anyway.
I have found the cylinder with 4 bolts at the back of the lower wheel , presumably that is where you make any adjustments?

How do you get on cutting 4" hardwood on your finely-fettled machine, Selwyn?

Thanks for all your help, everyone.

The BASATO 3 isn't the greatest tool in the world. Take the table off (4 bolts) and put a spirit level on to check coplaner. If they are off then you need to adapt the bottom wheel a bit. Spin a blade on the saw with your fingers to check. Once that is sorted your issues are pretty much tension and blade guides. Both of these are a bit crap so you are stressing your machine doing what your doing but a good new blade and well set up saw will do it

 

[Selwyn]

But as the others say if you are confident its not your problem don't worry about it. I have esperienced a basato 3 going out of planer for an unexplainable reason though

 

[Bodgers]

Thanks for your response.
The machine kept running, so I don't believe it stalled.
Yes, I've recently gave all the insides, in particular the wheel tyres, a thorough clean.
I too set the guides to be a hair's width away from the blade. I'm not a 'natural' mechanic (I gave up fiddling with cars a long time ago for that reason!) but I try hard to follow the magazine and book advice on setting up the machine correctly. You're supposed to leave a gap just big enough for a cigarette paper, but I find the blade is moving more than that as you rotate the wheels. What can you do?

Have you used yours to saw 4" thick hardwood, and if so, how did it go?
Thanks

I have resawed several bits of American Black Walnut 150mm wide without any problems.

I have also done the same with European White Oak in pieces varying between 90-125mm wide.

A sharp blade that's well tensioned, with a slowish feedrate...

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Bodgers]

Start at the beginning - make sure the wheels are co-planer. I have a basato 3 and its not that strongly built and my wheels were out of plane.

When that is done - tighten up the blade and remember you may need to adapt the tension mechanism as its rubbish to get it tight enough

Then set your guides - which are also pretty rubbish

What don't you like about the guides? Mine is a fairly new model (18 months old) and I thought mine were pretty good compared to the Axy and Makita I owned previously...in fact the bud quality generally I found to be better.

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk

 

[johnbb99]

Thank you all.
Custard, thanks for your experience and warnings. I shall bring my 'slices' into our centrally heated [not this time of year, or course] house, and watch them curve and twist, most likely. The only thing that may reduce this is that the boards [sold as kiln dried] have sat in my cool but dry garage for about 8 years [I was gobsmacked to realise] BUT are still at about 15% moisture, so no doubt you will be proved right.
Ho hum.
Meanwhile I need to up my skills and experience using the Basato3.
TBC