Renovate natural sharpening stones?

[Trafalgar]

The halves await cleaving and then grinding into slips which await me become a proficient enough carver to warrant the exercise. I already own a few slips.

Unfortunately, the stone chipped on its face as well as fracturing through its thickness. It cannot be glued back together and used as a whole stone. I suspect that they rarely suffer a clean crack through the middle without the faces being affected. That would seem to me to be a pretty miraculous turn of events. I don't intend to make a habit out of dropping them, and haven't had this happen before.

 

[ED65]

The halves await cleaving and then grinding into slips which await me become a proficient enough carver to warrant the exercise. I already own a few slips.

Best of luck with the shaping when you come to do it. I've only done something similar once, rounding the edge of a vitreous ceramic tile to make a gouge hone, and the process was long-winded enough that I know I really don't want to have to do it with a tough natural stone :shock:

Unfortunately, the stone chipped on its face as well as fracturing through its thickness. It cannot be glued back together and used as a whole stone. I suspect that they rarely suffer a clean crack through the middle without the faces being affected. That would seem to me to be a pretty miraculous turn of events.

From what I've seen some spalling from the surface is fairly common, but it's not always major. If the losses from the face are small enough they can be dealt with fairly easily, and the usual advice going way back was to lap/dress the stone surface after bonding anyway... which neatly brings us back full circle since it implies that the stone's face should have been flat to begin with

I've only dropped a loose stone once and the vinyl on the (concrete) floor saved it from major damage. Lost a very small chip from a corner and that's all. I also don't intend to make a habit of this as I doubt I'll be as lucky twice!

 

[Trafalgar]

I have another stone that can stand in. I frankly doubt I'll do anything with the broken one, but if I do it would be to attempt to shape it into something useable on gouges. I'll keep the halves around for a while and see. It's not a priority at the moment at all.

Cheers.

 

[D_W]

Charlie, do you have a stationary belt sander? If you do, easy peasy. It'll be a little work, but your idea is a good one. I've got a load of broken stones, and even giving away the parts shaped as slips would be better than throwing them out -I hate that.

I know you're not in love with getting help from me on any topic, but you want me to make a stone shaping video? It'd be short. I've been cutting japanese stones lately, shaping them and selling them as tomonagura, they're easier, but it's the same thing. I might be able to find an old arkansas stone that would make a nice slip. I see plenty of other people (not you) blowing out diamond plates on stones like that, and it's needless.

 

[MikeG.]

.........If it has a swale, it was by definition used by a professional craftsman, or a series of professional craftsmen. You cannot produce this by using it every other weekend.......

Erm.......... then how come the oilstone I bought new 30 years ago has a swale? It was flat when I started.

I guess because you've used it for 30 years. It's cause for rejoicing. =D> .

No, I gave up on it 6 or 8 years ago when I discovered that a bit of sandpaper did the job better.

You have one side with all sorts of options and then a flat side. Nothing not to love.

No, it has a coarse side and a smooth side, and they are both hollow. If I want a straight edge to a 2" chisel or a plane blade (and I do), then a stone like this is useless to me.

If you ever want to get rid of it, or view it as somehow 'defective,' please give me a shout. I had one that was getting just about right and it split almost dead in half in a drop to a concrete floor.

I'll hang on to it, because it's useful for a quick edge on a kitchen knife.

 

[Trafalgar]

A synthetic stone with a coarse and a smooth side are really two different stones used for different things, hence the heavy use on both sides. They just happen to be bonded together for convenience and to save space in a tool chest.

Most used natural stones I've seen, if they have a swale, have it on only one side. If they have it on two sides, but each is shaped differently, it was likely used by a carver or turner and most likely the latter IMO, unless the wear is a series of grooves where gouges were honed.

 

[Trafalgar]

Charlie, do you have a stationary belt sander? If you do, easy peasy. It'll be a little work, but your idea is a good one. I've got a load of broken stones, and even giving away the parts shaped as slips would be better than throwing them out -I hate that.

I know you're not in love with getting help from me on any topic, but you want me to make a stone shaping video? It'd be short. I've been cutting japanese stones lately, shaping them and selling them as tomonagura, they're easier, but it's the same thing. I might be able to find an old arkansas stone that would make a nice slip. I see plenty of other people (not you) blowing out diamond plates on stones like that, and it's needless.

I don't have a stationery belt sander. I have an old Sears hand-held somewhere. I've watched every video you've ever posted and see no reason to stop now. Happy to take a look. I've never done the sort of work we're discussing and would have everything to gain.

The problem is that I'm not sure what shape I really want these to be. I have a couple of fine India gouge cones, some natural Arkansas slips, etc. This would be the rainiest of rainy day projects for me.

 

[bugbear]

Most used natural stones I've seen, if they have a swale, have it on only one side.

I've found a few cased stones where the upper side is hollowed.

Removing the stone from the case...

... the lower side was hollowed too. Looks like it was easier to turn it over than flatten, but this "clever trick" only works once!

Eventually you gotta' flatten.

BugBear

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Eventually you gotta' let someone else flatten.

 

[essexalan]

A lot of Charnleys only have one usable side, the other side is just as it was cut out of the solid rock or the stone is fitted so tightly in it's box you would have to wreck the box to get it out. Luckily they are one of the easiest natural stones to flatten and stay flat in use for a good time.

 

[Trafalgar]

Most used natural stones I've seen, if they have a swale, have it on only one side.

I've found a few cased stones where the upper side is hollowed.

Removing the stone from the case...

... the lower side was hollowed too. Looks like it was easier to turn it over than flatten, but this "clever trick" only works once!

Eventually you gotta' flatten.

BugBear

My guess is that the stone was used by a carver or a turner especially if the hollows are different. If not, it's hard to imagine hollowing a stone on both faces doing chisels and plane irons. Poor fellow must have worked 80 hours a week for years on end, or it was the only stone or one of only a few stones in a busy shop -- a very real possibility. At any rate, one flat side is nice to have.

 

[Jacob]

Most used natural stones I've seen, if they have a swale, have it on only one side.

I've found a few cased stones where the upper side is hollowed.

Removing the stone from the case...

... the lower side was hollowed too. Looks like it was easier to turn it over than flatten, but this "clever trick" only works once!

Eventually you gotta' flatten.

BugBear

I got a Norton with the fine side untouched - you could still see the lettering, but the coarse side deeply convex. Still no need to flatten, it is perfectly usable. Incidentally it cuts much faster than a coarse Ezelap diamond. Tthe EZe lap is finer but not by much.

 

[bugbear]

A lot of Charnleys only have one usable side, the other side is just as it was cut out of the solid rock or the stone is fitted so tightly in it's box you would have to wreck the box to get it out. Luckily they are one of the easiest natural stones to flatten and stay flat in use for a good time.

I think it's because a lot of Charnleys are from an early period. Once diamond saws were common(er) fully rectangular stones became easier to cut, and became the norm.

I do cherish a non-rectangular Arkansas I found. Only ever seen one, and I bought it.

BugBear

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My guess is that the stone was used by a carver or a turner especially if the hollows are different. If not, it's hard to imagine hollowing a stone on both faces doing chisels and plane irons. Poor fellow must have worked 80 hours a week for years on end ...

And used it badly? Most of us (especially water stone users) know how within reason to spread the wear.

 

[D_W]

Charlie, do you have a stationary belt sander? If you do, easy peasy. It'll be a little work, but your idea is a good one. I've got a load of broken stones, and even giving away the parts shaped as slips would be better than throwing them out -I hate that.

I know you're not in love with getting help from me on any topic, but you want me to make a stone shaping video? It'd be short. I've been cutting japanese stones lately, shaping them and selling them as tomonagura, they're easier, but it's the same thing. I might be able to find an old arkansas stone that would make a nice slip. I see plenty of other people (not you) blowing out diamond plates on stones like that, and it's needless.

I don't have a stationery belt sander. I have an old Sears hand-held somewhere. I've watched every video you've ever posted and see no reason to stop now. Happy to take a look. I've never done the sort of work we're discussing and would have everything to gain.

The problem is that I'm not sure what shape I really want these to be. I have a couple of fine India gouge cones, some natural Arkansas slips, etc. This would be the rainiest of rainy day projects for me.

I'll post one. Unfortunately, it takes a stationary sander (you need access to a hard idler drum at the end), but I'll bet there are other ways to get at the same thing (grinders, etc). Certainly it can wait until you've figured out what shape you want.

About twice a year I see people post on forums talking about long draw-out ways to address washita stones. I've never made a video that was very useful to many people, so I can certainly make another one just like that.

(I just used the drum end of same belt sander yesterday to set the edge on a new long-handled grass hook that I can use to trim my holly trees without stepping into them and getting scuffed up. I cursed the sander as being junk beginners fodder, but I've probably done $500 worth of work with it that I couldn't do with anything else - just none of it has anything to do with wood).

 

[D_W]

I've kind of screwed myself by talking up the washita to the razor boards. Two years ago, I could've gone out to ebay, bought a washita with sway for $30, cleaned it up and flattened it and sold it for a couple of bucks more.

I just picked up an old stone with sway off of ebay. I don't think I have anything out of flat, except for some stones that have sway in spots that I'd like to keep.

(I think you could probably turn a wooden drum on the lathe out of scrap and make something that would work the same way as what I'll do in the video. Wouldn't use it on the stone in a good lathe, but that goes without saying. Could make a 3/4" wheel out of plywood and put it on a grinder and do the same thing if there's no guard in the way - just glue coarse sandpaper to the wheel with good quality contact cement).

If you've actually watched all of the videos I've posted, I might send you a sympathy card.

 

[ED65]

I don't know if D_W is going to emphasise this point but I feel the caution needs to be said early: if you're sanding a sharpening stone (of any kind but especially naturals) make sure you're wearing breathing protection! A proper dust mask should be considered the minimum.

The dust from all natural whetstones is not something you want any of in your lungs.

 

[D_W]

Of course. It's generally silica of some sort (chemically transformed in some way if it's novaculite). One time won't kill you, but it's not good for you. Lots of times sent stone cutters to an early death.

Outside with a mask is best practice.

 

[Trafalgar]

My guess is that the stone was used by a carver or a turner especially if the hollows are different. If not, it's hard to imagine hollowing a stone on both faces doing chisels and plane irons. Poor fellow must have worked 80 hours a week for years on end ...

And used it badly? Most of us (especially water stone users) know how within reason to spread the wear.

Re; the "poor fellow" -- working on a stone furnished by the Governor no doubt...

 

[D_W]

Here's what I do. I've dulled this belt on metal and japanese stones before this, but it still does the job. Very low power sander, less than 4 amps at 110v.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-073wnW ... e=youtu.be

The drum on this sander is a cylinder with straight sides, so you can use the contact vector to establish flatness on a stone very well and only have to lap with a sandpaper lap or a diamond hone for a short period of time. 5 minutes in this case. Total time about 22 minutes or something, and no sweating.

I paid $40 for this stone and didn't do anything to ensure that it would be a washita, which was foolish, but it's a beautiful stone - a very soft feeling washita with a lot of bite, better than any middle stone that came of japan, so I took the opportunity while it's fresh and smart to reestablish the bevel on a japanese chisel.

https://s26.postimg.org/z2fl2rl61/IMG_2 ... 202107.jpg

I don't have any broken stones to make slips (other than japanese stones, but they're not good candidates for that), but maybe I'll run into one at some point. Might take a half hour to make a slip with a good belt, but washita slips costs about $40.

Useful for any natural stone. Slates go by in a blink.