Remaking a WB AGS 10 riving knife assembly

[KT_NorCal]

Hi there,
I'm over in the States and have a late 70s WB AGS 10 (I've got a restore thread here that is on pause while I wait out the winter). Unfortunately the US versions of the saw came with a static "splitter" instead of the standard rise/fall riving knife and assembly that came on UK versions. I think the standard riving knife and assembly on the UK saws were much superior.

Net, Net I've been wanting to retrofit one of he assemblies to my saw, but haven't had any luck in finding one second hand with all the various bits. That said, the parts that make it up all seem to be pretty basic/straightforward, so I was thinking of fabricating them myself.

For those that have restored one if these, do you think it is this a do-able option and is there anyone who happens to be currently restoring one and might be able to take measurements of the various parts?

Luckily my saw has all the mounting points already factory drilled (also has the snap-ring slot milled around the arbor housing, so all I would need to do is make sure I got all the various bits that are part of the assembly made correctly.

Thanks for reading and I appreciate any/all help!

 

[Krysstel]

I have some pictures from when I pulled apart my AGS10 to restore it. Maybe these will help you.
My saw is a 1963 model and was fitted with a rise/fall/tilt riving knife from the factory. I have since replaced the factory original knife and blade guard with one from Shark Guard (bought in the US).

Let me know if you want more info.

AGS10 Restoration

Mark

 

[KT_NorCal]

Hi Mark,
I think that particular set up is not compatible with the saw I have. I'm attaching a few pics of the set up that I know works for my era of saw (they are from a blog of some great WB restorations). I've seen it referred to as the "parallelogram" version. It seems to be made up of some pretty simple pieces, which is why I'm thinking it wouldn't be too hard for me to re-create. It appears the saws sent to the States all had the rather annoying splitter/guard arrangement. I'm guessing for some obscure regulatory reason, but in reality I don't think they are as safe and end up getting in the way and just being removed, which doesn't help things. The one on my saw was clearly removed right after it was purchased then never installed again. Other than rust it was brand new.

Btw, great color on your saw. Like the paint job! It all came out great.

The one piece that was missing from my saw was the factory dust port on the bottom. I fabbed one up, but after looking at your dust management solutions, I'm guessing it won't make that much of a difference... May need to do what you did eventually.

Here is the link to the thread on my saw so you can see a few pics of it:
baby-wadkin-bursgreen-in-california-advice-on-an-ags10-t114855.html

Also, here is a link to Peter's site where I got the restored AGS images from. He has brought several of these back to better-than-new condition:
https://www.sawandbits.com/wadkin-bursg ... table-saw/

 

[Krysstel]

Looking at my first picture and your second one it looks like your saw has the same mounting holes available as can be found on mine. In which case it might be viable to reproduce in steel plate the cast iron plate my knife mounts to.

Yes, I put a lot of effort into the dust collection on my saw but in all honesty it didn't make that much difference The cabinet doesn't exactly fill with dust any more but it does still collect in all the difficult to get to corners, like on and in the rise/fall and tilt mechanisms etc. The Sharkguard is however brilliant and removes almost everything from around the blade.

Thanks regarding the colour choice BTW :wink:

Mark

 

[KT_NorCal]

Looking at my first picture and your second one it looks like your saw has the same mounting holes available as can be found on mine. In which case it might be viable to reproduce in steel plate the cast iron plate my knife mounts to.

Yes, I put a lot of effort into the dust collection on my saw but in all honesty it didn't make that much difference The cabinet doesn't exactly fill with dust any more but it does still collect in all the difficult to get to corners, like on and in the rise/fall and tilt mechanisms etc. The Sharkguard is however brilliant and removes almost everything from around the blade.

Thanks regarding the colour choice BTW :wink:

Mark

Ha, ok, I'll leave the exotic dust collection assembly until later if you aren't pleased with how it works. Can't imagine I would be able to come up with anything better than what you did. Interesting on the shark guard though. I've heard about them for a while, but never looked into them much.

I'll look at my saw again and take a closer look at the assemblies that are in your saw. The only hesitation is there are a lot of rather specific cuts in that plate while the other assembly, excepting the bit that goes around the arbor, is essentially made up of children's blocks as far as levels of sophistication which might be easier for me to re-produce. My skills are middling at best when it comes to lathes and milling machines...

I'll take a look at everything again this weekend.
Thanks again!

 

[heimlaga]

There is a chap in southern Sweden who has built a very nice paralellogram type riving knife mount for his 10"AGS. A rather straightforward design it was. He is active on the forum at
https://www.byggahus.se/forum/forums/ve ... fordon.67/

If you need translation help between Swedish and English drop me a PM. However if he is the one I think he is then he should be fluent in English so once you get hold of him it should be no problem.

 

[KT_NorCal]

There is a chap in southern Sweden who has built a very nice paralellogram type riving knife mount for his 10"AGS. A rather straightforward design it was. He is active on the forum at
https://www.byggahus.se/forum/forums/ve ... fordon.67/

If you need translation help between Swedish and English drop me a PM. However if he is the one I think he is then he should be fluent in English so once you get hold of him it should be no problem.

Hi Heimlaga,
Thank you for the tip! I was able to find his thread on that site. Strangely, the three seasons of Wallander that I watched didn't help me as much as I was hoping they would, but luckily he did an entire write up in English. Once I figured out how to register and log-in I could see the 3D renderings and pictures he posted.

It looks like he was modifying a much older (early 60s from the looks of it) saw which originally would not have come with a riving knife. He followed the parallelogram design concept, but had to adapt it for the older saw. I think my situation will be much easier as the arbor/arbor housing are already suitable for the "paralelogram" set-up. In other words, if someone had a spare set of parts for one I should be able to just bolt them on my saw.

The more I look into it the more I think the only thing I really probably need detailed pictures and measurements of is the bit that mounts around the arbor housing. I'm pretty sure once I have that I should be able to re-create the other pieces to fit without too much trouble.

Thanks again for the link!
Kevin

 

[KT_NorCal]

Figured i would bump this thread again in hopes that someone who has an AGS 10 being restored or partially disassembled might be able to help with the riving knife component dimensions.

Definitely still hoping to fabricate one of these up as part of the saw restore process!

Thanks!

 

[memzey]

Can’t help I’m afraid as my resto was done a few years back. I did not include a true riving knife conversion at the time so am interested in how you get along with this.

 

[KT_NorCal]

Someone on another forum fabbed up the riving knife assembly that went on earlier versions of the AGS10, but they had a template to work from. In this case unless I can find someone who can measure all the various bits I'm going to have to fabricate something and do a little trial and error.

Beyond this site are there are good places to place "want to buy" ads for bits off of Wadkin Bursgreens? Not opposed to buying the pieces either, but these machines don't seem to get broken down for parts very often!

 

[memzey]

Someone on another forum fabbed up the riving knife assembly that went on earlier versions of the AGS10, but they had a template to work from.

Interesting. Have you got a link to the forum thread you refer to above? Might be helpful in shedding some light on the topic.

 

[KT_NorCal]

Hi There,
Sorry about that. I wasn't 100% sure if there were any issues with adding links to other forums on here, but if not here is the link:
http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=212973

He is fabricating the full set up... just the older version non "parallelogram" style. His trunion wasn't drilled for it either so he had to go though that process as well. Mine is thankfully all set with all the proper attachment points for the later style, so once I get it fabricated and make sure I have the proper fasteners I should be able to just bolt it on (in theory, but Murphy's law has a tendency of showing up at these points).

Kevin

 

[merlin]

Hello Kevin,

Over the next few days I will be servicing mine and give it a proper de dust, I will measure up the parts and let you know.
It all looks quite simple but looks like I have to take the bed off to remove the main linkage point.

Merlin

 

[merlin]

Here's a few pictures

 

[merlin]

And a few more.

 

[KT_NorCal]

Wow,
This is amazing. That is pretty much everything I will probably need. Are all the bits that attach to the main bar meant to bring the riving knife into direct alignment with the blade? Or are they meant to have spacers as well?

Also hadn't realized that the "vertical link" attached directly behind the main riving knife support bar and the hub that fits around the arbor. That was a detail I hadn't noticed before.

Thanks again for all the effort you went to put this together!

Kevin

 

[merlin]

It should just about line up, any small adjustment can be taken up by shifting the spindle itself.
Details can be found in the manual.
If you can’t find it online let me know.
When it all bolts together it needs aligning before final tightening, I do it so that it just misses the bed when at full height.
Merlin

 

[KT_NorCal]

It should just about line up, any small adjustment can be taken up by shifting the spindle itself.

Merlin

Hmmm, not 100% sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about shimming the entire arbor assembly as it mounts to the trunion?

Also how did the mating surface (for the hub bit that goes around the arbor housing) on the outside of the arbor housing look on your saw? The machining on mine looks decidedly half-assed tbh. The snap ring slot is milled properly, but it almost looks like they didn't have the thing mounted concentrically in whatever sort of machine they did it in...

I have a couple different manuals I've grabbed online over the year since the US version I have is crap, so I'll have to take a look through them, is there a particular year of manual that is the best for this sort of thing?

Thanks again for all the help. I'm going to take another survey of it all this weekend since the weather is supposed to be nice and I can drag it outside. I'm desperately trying to get my 1965 Powermatic 1150VS drill press finished so I can get back to the Wadkin. You wouldn't think restoring a drill press would be such a PITA, but wow, it has been one thing after another (I am being slightly OCD about the whole thing if I'm honest with myself though).

KT

 

[deema]

The spindle has a collar that is located between the two bearings inside the housing and inside the spacer tube. The collar is attached to the outside of the casting by a bolt. By slackening the bolt the spindle can be moved backwards and forwards a small amount to align exactly the blade with the riving knife. Once aligned the bolt holding the collar is tightened up again which pulls the collar against the spacer tube holding everything in place.

 

[deema]