Remaking a WB AGS 10 riving knife assembly

[merlin]

What he said.

 

[KT_NorCal]

Ah, Ok. I have not spent any time on reading up on that bit of the saw yet, so I'll spend more time on it once I get to that part... Makes more sense though.

I'll probably need additional advice by the time I get to that point I'm guessing. It does lead me to believe that the "hub" part of the riving knife assembly may have a critical measurement for where it attaches to the main "horizontal" bar though.

 

[merlin]

I will have a look later and see if I can get some dims.

Merlin

 

[KT_NorCal]

Does that hub bit sit snugly against the snap ring? I.E. no fore-aft movement on the arbor housing?

I'm assuming it must if the manual is suggesting what it does as far as shimming it by moving the actual arbor as I can't imagine there is a ton of adjustablility in it... But, like I said I haven't spent any time on that arbor assembly yet, so I may not be making a good assumption.

 

[KT_NorCal]

View attachment 74

Hi Deema, could you re-attach that picture at a higher resolution? I'm interested in seeing it in more detail if possible... the pic you have there doesn't enlarge when I click on it...

 

[merlin]

Just had a measure.
The face of the spindle casting / machining does look a bit half assed but won’t make any difference ( if that’s the part you mean?).see photo.
The width from Spindle casting to circlip is 18mm.
From the circlip face to the linkage face is 6.4mm.
There aren’t any shims.
Hope it makes sense....

 

[KT_NorCal]

Just had a measure.
The face of the spindle casting / machining does look a bit half assed but won’t make any difference ( if that’s the part you mean?).see photo.

Yes, the machined bit the "hub" part of the riving knife assembly (still not sure what to call that thing) rides on. Mine looks like the intern did it with not much supervision. I'm hoping to get the saw out tomorrow to get the fence rail re-mounted after I got it cleaned up today, so I'll see if I can get re-acquainted with the guts of the machine.

The width from Spindle casting to circlip is 18mm.
From the circlip face to the linkage face is 6.4mm.
There aren’t any shims.
Hope it makes sense....

I *think* it makes sense... if you are talking about the spindle casting itself rather than the "hub" (again, the roundy bit of the riving knife assembly that rotates on the spindle casting itself).

Also if the circlip is the clip that rides in the groove in the spindle housing...?

Net, net If that "hub" rides on the spindle housing between the rear ridge (the beginning of the un-machined part of the spindle housing) and the spring clip with no for/aft movement then I think the only critical measurement I would need to re-create it would be from the face of the hub as it rides against the clip (in its groove) to the machined face that the links attach to... if you get my meaning...

I'll take some pictures and measurements tomorrow and then draw on the pictures as my spindle housing is easy to access and should keep you from having to take your saw down to bits to help me out!

Thanks again for the help!
KT

PS: Looking at your pictures again, it does look like that "hub" is mounted snug to that clip leading me to believe it isn't allowed to move (except in rotation as it should).... Which means, ignore the above as your measurements now make sense to me...

*there are, I believe, some very acceptable "colonials" jokes and or head shakings allowed in all this....*

 

[deema]

Here you go

 

[deema]

The machined hub on both the older AGS10 and 12 floats on the spindle housing. The alignment of the riving knife is fixed by the two bolts that bolt into the main casting / allow the riving knife assembly to pivot. This allows the spindle hub to move in and out to allow you to align the blade to the riving knife. The actual dimensions of the machined ring thickness are not critical, as long as it allows sufficient movement. If you measure the hole in the spindle housing and subtract the diameter of the bolt (3/8”) you get the total movement needed.

 

[KT_NorCal]

The machined hub on both the older AGS10 and 12 floats on the spindle housing. The alignment of the riving knife is fixed by the two bolts that bolt into the main casting / allow the riving knife assembly to pivot. This allows the spindle hub to move in and out to allow you to align the blade to the riving knife. The actual dimensions of the machined ring thickness are not critical, as long as it allows sufficient movement. If you measure the hole in the spindle housing and subtract the diameter of the bolt (3/8”) you get the total movement needed.

Ok, I was going to say the hub attachment on yours (in the picture) looked offset, but if it is the older one with "frame" that is located with those two lower bolts that make sense. In your set up I don't think the play would matter as that frame is fixed by the two bolts, but in Pete's later set up the design would seem to need that machined hub to be located pretty exactly to keep the whole set up exact.

Once I get access to the machine shop again I'm sure this will become pretty interesting. At some point I'm going to attempt to model it up in 3D CAD solution as well, but I'm in no rush to do that yet.

 

[KT_NorCal]

Pete, was meaning to ask, is this brass threaded rod and nut BSW or is t actually metric? I'm assuming by your notations that it is metric. Also, what keeps it from backing itself out of the trunion and or off the link as the blade moves up and down (over time)? Is it captured on that link in some way?

Not having seen a video of the riving knife set-up going though its motions I would think both that connection and the connection to the vertical link that connects to the hub assembly would need to be "free rotating" for it to work properly. I think I'm missing something though.

Thanks again!

 

[merlin]

The Brass threaded rod is (on mine) metric M12,it does have a screwdriver slot on the end that the photo might not show very well.
It screws into the trunion tight and the thin nut then locks it firmly against it.
The smaller link has the threaded rod screwed into it brazed on and flatten off. ( looks like I missed that detail on the drawing)
When assembled together the two links are "screwed" together so that it acts like a bearing, the longer link is then "screwed" onto the brass rod already fitted into the trunion.
When it is operating they just pivot on the threads and therefore can pivot without pulling apart or away from the trunion, just be careful that they don't tighten up, the movement is so slight it works quite well.
Let me know if you need any more photos.

 

[deema]

Thanks PT, I really am grateful for all your input. I’m going to pore myself a strong G&T and sit down to have a good think about your explanation. I might comeback to you if I can’t get my head around it. The more technical the better for me. Nothing like a problem to get the grey cells working. I graduated in Electrical & Electronics so this metal bashing stuff is all new to me from a theory side. Love it

 

[KT_NorCal]

The Brass threaded rod is (on mine) metric M12,it does have a screwdriver slot on the end that the photo might not show very well.
It screws into the trunion tight and the thin nut then locks it firmly against it.
The smaller link has the threaded rod screwed into it brazed on and flatten off. ( looks like I missed that detail on the drawing)
When assembled together the two links are "screwed" together so that it acts like a bearing, the longer link is then "screwed" onto the brass rod already fitted into the trunion.
When it is operating they just pivot on the threads and therefore can pivot without pulling apart or away from the trunion, just be careful that they don't tighten up, the movement is so slight it works quite well.
Let me know if you need any more photos.

Ok, I think I know what you are getting at... i was imagining more movement, but based on what you are saying the arrangement makes sense. I'm thinking that when I remake them I could essentially just mount them unthreaded and it would work in the same manner, but I'll have to see once I get to that point.
No more pics needed for now, you have gone above and beyond the call of duty... once I get into the actual making of part I'll probably have many verification questions, but for now I know what I need to get started!
Thanks again

 

[KT_NorCal]

I’m going to pore myself a strong G&T and sit down to have a good think about your explanation.

Given it i still technically Fall I believe it would be proper to make a Boulevardier... and once summer hits the Negroni will be an acceptable aid to the thinking bit of old machinery fixing.

 

[merlin]

I think it would be better to use the threaded rod as it acts as a nice surface to run on and it won’t fall off into the blade, doing it that way there is nothing protruding in front of the link arms.
Happy to help.

 

[MilesH]

In case it's of use, I've attached a 3D model of the spindle housing collar from an AGS10 (1977). It's a STEP AP214 file.

 

[KT_NorCal]

In case it's of use, I've attached a 3D model of the spindle housing collar from an AGS10 (1977). It's a STEP AP214 file.

Hi Miles,
Hope all is well. Do you by any chance know the size of circlip that is used on to retain the spindle housing collar?

I'm about to start the shop class for the semester and it's my plan to start this project once I clean up the arbor blade flanges and whatnot.

KT