redwood / pine - what's in a name??

[pren]

Happy Saturday, all!

Just been reading Dan Toveys (hope thats's spelt right) post on the pine alcove units he made. Excellent work IMHO!

I noticed that the terms 'Pine' and 'Redwood' seem to have been used to describe the same wood. I've always worked with the timber from B&Q for my wood projects, and that has been sold as 'Redwood'.

Is that 'Pine'?

Some of the mouldings they sell (beading, small strips of wood ..) are sold as 'Pine' but match the colouring of the 'Redwood'.

Is 'Pine' a type of 'redwood'? If so, what have I been working with? A friend has been asking me to make a pine dresser for her. Due to my heightened phobia of wood yards, I've been stalling her. If the 'Redwood' from B&Q is 'Pine' then; game on! :!:

Confused! :-s

Bryn

 

[George_N]

Redwood is the traditional name for timber from the Scots Pine , nothing to do with Redwood trees...sequoia species I think. Some bigger B&Q warehouses stock what they list as redwood but to be honest I'd try and find a local timber merchant as the quality from B&Q is usually pretty suspect.
[/i]

 

[eggflan]

Happy Saturday, all!

Just been reading Dan Toveys (hope thats's spelt right) post on the pine alcove units he made. Excellent work IMHO!

I noticed that the terms 'Pine' and 'Redwood' seem to have been used to describe the same wood. I've always worked with the timber from B&Q for my wood projects, and that has been sold as 'Redwood'.

Is that 'Pine'?

Some of the mouldings they sell (beading, small strips of wood ..) are sold as 'Pine' but match the colouring of the 'Redwood'.

Is 'Pine' a type of 'redwood'? If so, what have I been working with? A friend has been asking me to make a pine dresser for her. Due to my heightened phobia of wood yards, I've been stalling her. If the 'Redwood' from B&Q is 'Pine' then; game on! :!:

Confused! :-s

Bryn

Good morning Bryn,
in a word yes you have been using pine , there are a load of different types of pine but for your projects you really want to be using redwood as it is generally a lot slower grown and therefore a lot more stable and stronger than what you would call white pine or fast growing pines from the hotter climates.

Just look at two bits together and you will see the grain on the redwood will be much denser and the weight difference is very significant .

People tend to shy away from B&Q timbers but if your carefull and pick over the stock you should be fine one tip i would use is to try and buy from them just after they have had a delivery that way you get the best pickings . Also try to keep the timber in its shrinkwrap until you need it as this will reduce problems with it cupping too much .

I tend to use quite a bit of there timber even though i pass a well known timber yard on my way there, for anything other than pine i will always go to the timber yard .

Now get on with that dresser for your friend :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Benchwayze]

If you want quality timber, especially in softwoods, I think you have to use a quality supplier. You will pay more, but it's certainly true that you get what you pay for.

There are a number of reasonable suppliers in Birmingham, but for special jobs, I use Sykes of Atherstone. And they deliver too!

regards
John

 

[BradNaylor]

Hi Bryn,

Thanks for the kind words.

'Redwood' is the term used in the timber and joinery trades to refer to Pinus Sylvestrus, or the Scots Pine. Not much comes from Scotland unfortunately; it is mainly from Scandinavia hence its other name, Scandinavian Redwood. Most pine mouldings and beadings are made from this.

The other main pine used for furniture, and in my opinion a superior choice, is Pinus Strobus, otherwise known as Eastern White Pine or Quebec Yellow Pine. This comes from Canada and the USA.

Most of the softwood you see in the likes of B&Q is not pine at all, but 'Whitewood', a utility timber from Russia, the Baltic and Scandinavia. I think, but am not 100% sure, that it comes from the spruce tree. Whatever, it is fine for general joinery but is not really up to standard for furniture.

The only true pine readily available is redwood. Quebec Yellow Pine used to be stocked by specialist suppliers to reproduction pine furniture manufacturers, but since the ar$e fell out of that trade a few years ago it has all but vanished.

If you are intending making a pine dresser I would suggest that you buy ready made redwood panels. These are available in various widths and lengths and are made up of thin strips of wood glued together and sanded smooth in factories close to the timber source.

Do NOT go to B&Q though!! They sell panels in shrink wrap packs for astronomical sums. I'd pop a roof rack on your car and go to Scandinavian Pine in Winsford, Cheshire. Its nearly in North Wales!

http://www.scandinavianpine.co.uk/

Their website makes it look like they only sell imported furniture, but they also have a huge warehouse full of pine panels. They are a fraction of B&Q prices.

The pine panels come 18mm thick for the carcassing and 8mm thick for door panels - unless you are going for raised & fielded panels, in which case use 18mm. For your door frames and face frames if any you will need something like 1.5" thick redwood from a timber merchent - Scandinavian Pine don't sell it!

Alternatively, get me to make you one! I could do something nice for about a grand but I'm booked up till after Christmas! :lol:

Good luck and have fun.

Cheers
Dan

 

[andycktm]

Most timber merchant's/ builders supplies are a no go area
for a lot of people,because if you don't know what you want
and how much you want exactly,they try to make you look like
an idiot!! usually in front of queue of other people :evil:

 

[Harbo]

I made a unit from some Giant Redwood - Wellingtonia - that is definitely red wood and quite difficult to work

Rod

 

[BradNaylor]

Most timber merchant's/ builders supplies are a no go area
for a lot of people,because if you don't know what you want
and how much you want exactly,they try to make you look like
an idiot!! usually in front of queue of other people :evil:

So do your research and ask any questions here! Then, when you go to the timber yard, you'll know what to ask for!

A few tips;

Knock up a few business cards on the computer describing yourself as a furniture maker or whatever. This will get you credibility and trade prices!

Look a right scruffy bugger. Dusty jeans, boots, and Norm shirt covered in dried glue all add to the right image. Don't go wearing your suit from work. A good quality tape measure clipped on your jeans pocket is a nice touch. Do NOT however, wear a tool belt! They'll think you are a complete tosser!

If you lack confidence write down your requirements on the back of an old envelope or *** packet and pass it to the guy in the yard. He will assume that you have been sent by your boss and you will be treated as a equal, rather than as a poncy middle class hobbyist woodworker who has come to try their patience and waste their time. This really is how they think!

For the same reasons, if you have to go in your Merc or Beemer park it out of sight round the corner! At the very least fit a roof rack to it and have a ladder on there. You'd be better off borrowing a knackered old Transit.

I appreciate that timber yards can be intimidating places for the uninitiated. You need to get the hang of it though. A woodworker who's scared of timber yards isn't going to get very far!

Cheers
Dan

 

[brianhabby]

Hi Bryn,

I don't know where you are in North Wales, but I think there would be better places than B&Q. Try Richard Williams in Deganwy, (01492 583423) and speak to Keith in the timber yard. I haven't personally used them for timber as yet but they speak quite highly of themselves so I think they may be worth a visit.

regards

Brian

 

[andycktm]

Luckily for me Dan i've got plenty of timber,
I was talking of past experiences for building materials.
But i presume they are the same at most "trade" outlet's.
They are only doing them-self's a dis-service,(trade wise).
I'm just putting forward one of the reason's B&Q do so well.

 

[Shultzy]

It certainly can be a minefield for the unwary, and its best to pick your own. I went to TP and asked for 4x2 sawn for building my workshop and they delivered "Dry Graded C16 47mmx 100mm square edged". This week I went back for more and although the delivery note said as above the timber was CLS and not 47mmx 100mm square edged.

 

[PowerTool]

My local timber merchant (Darlington Timber Supplies) only stocks redwood,no whitewood - as the boss there told me "It's sh*te,and I refuse to sell it" :lol:
Did a shelving job recently,and got about 48 metres of timber from them - was about 5% more expensive than getting it from Wickes,but probably 50% better in quality

Andrew

 

[Slim]

Most timber merchant's/ builders supplies are a no go area
for a lot of people,because if you don't know what you want
and how much you want exactly,they try to make you look like
an idiot!! usually in front of queue of other people :evil:

So do your research and ask any questions here! Then, when you go to the timber yard, you'll know what to ask for!

A few tips;

Knock up a few business cards on the computer describing yourself as a furniture maker or whatever. This will get you credibility and trade prices!

Look a right scruffy bugger. Dusty jeans, boots, and Norm shirt covered in dried glue all add to the right image. Don't go wearing your suit from work. A good quality tape measure clipped on your jeans pocket is a nice touch. Do NOT however, wear a tool belt! They'll think you are a complete tosser!

If you lack confidence write down your requirements on the back of an old envelope or *** packet and pass it to the guy in the yard. He will assume that you have been sent by your boss and you will be treated as a equal, rather than as a poncy middle class hobbyist woodworker who has come to try their patience and waste their time. This really is how they think!

For the same reasons, if you have to go in your Merc or Beemer park it out of sight round the corner! At the very least fit a roof rack to it and have a ladder on there. You'd be better off borrowing a knackered old Transit.

I appreciate that timber yards can be intimidating places for the uninitiated. You need to get the hang of it though. A woodworker who's scared of timber yards isn't going to get very far!

Cheers
Dan

Better still Dan, take your Mum in with you.

When I started my landscaping business, one of the first jobs I did was a patio for my parents. So I took my mum into the builders merchants to choose some stone. One of the guys there took such a fancy to her, he gave me a credit account and an automatic 40% discount! He has also made sure he deals with me personally every time I have been in the since. I keep telling him she's married, but he is ever the optimist :lol:

 

[tnimble]

Over here what is sold as softwood/pine (vuren) at the DIY stores and at builders suppliers is Picea abies aka Spruce. What is sold in premade mouldings, as wood for cheap furniture and more historical for beams, rafters and sometimes foundation piles is Pinus sylvestris aka Scots Pine (grenen). Sometimes red cedar (Thuja plicata) is called red wood but red wood should indicate wood from the Sequoia tree in the states (California). It may that in the trade Scots Pine is reffered to as redwood is because some of the wood over time tend to have a redish hue

 

[bluezephyr]

I use redwood pine as its a bit less dent resistant to the really cheap pine which is available.
I use CF Anderson who have been a very good supplier.

B&Q, Trying to find some beading and half way down the length its finger jointed, Someone doesnt like having to much scap being wasted!