Record No.52 1/2 B - Help Identifying

[Nigel Burden]

I think that the screw design changed at some time in the 1960s.

Nigel.

 

[DRThomas]

I can guarantee that your children will love a sidecar, if dad says sidecars are good that’s all there is to it!
Crikey you’re only about 20 miles away from me. Caistor.
Well I’ve never seen one like that before, certainly easier to fit. Yours is pre-1980 by quite a stretch I think . The shape of the sticky out bit where the handle goes through is quite an old design from memory it changed just after the war but don’t hold me to that. Ian

I'll show my wife this Ian. I'm fighting a losing battle with her with it. Ive considered a Morgan three wheeler too. At least they've got seatbelts.

When I originally posted it, someone suggested that it dates from 1918 to 1933. Using the guide listed above.

It's an odd old thing.

 

[Jacob]

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/evolution-of-the-record-52-1-2-quick-release-vice.106895/

 

[TRITON]

I expect we'll need pictures of your vice.

oo-er missus

 

[Cabinetman]

I'll show my wife this Ian. I'm fighting a losing battle with her with it. Ive considered a Morgan three wheeler too. At least they've got seatbelts.

When I originally posted it, someone suggested that it dates from 1918 to 1933. Using the guide listed above.

It's an odd old thing.

I find it strange that none of us on here have come across one without a back vertical section on it before, it might be quite rare, I don’t know if people will pay for rarity value on vices but it would certainly be worth looking into. Funnily enough a friend of mine here in Caistor has one of those three wheeler Morgans, terrific fun but you need to dress up warm, as I found out,

 

[DRThomas]

I thought it might be when I was doing my research a while ago and came up with very little.

As I was pulling the bench apart I thought I'd find the rear jaw.

I've had a look this evening and it looks like there's either a small Record stamp or sticker opposite the quick release handle.

I'll see what I'm offered, if anything. The chap I bought it from was from New Zealand originally. I should have asked him where it came from.

 

[toolsntat]

From your pictures it appears to me that the plate in the quick release mechanism is at odds with the rest of the vice. These have an offset hole to take the lever fixing screw. Maybe it's on the wrong way and needs flipping over. It looks like the vice wouldn't close up as it is.
Cheers Andy

 

[dannyr]

If it wasn't for other types with the B designation, I'd say the missing rear jaw is the key -- it has some advantages and there are other iron woodworking vices which just use the bench as rear jaw - in the UK there was the ornate '20th century' and a few from the USA, eg some piano-makers as shown in the Studley book.

In fact I mounted both my ww vices with an inserted rear jaw so it doesn't have much function (slight strengthening) and would have been a lot easier to mount a 'B' type (but I'll not part easily with the Parkinsons 10 1/2 in version 1 and the Syers vices (in use this eve) --pah, Record is just a Johnny-come-lately).

I'd say you've 'discovered' a new variant. Could be worth a mint (or not). Worth a para and a picture in the smallworkshop history.

 

[DRThomas]

It might be that I bump this up the to do list then and get it sorted. Unless it'd be better kept in its current state. Its not too bad to be fair. Much better than my Grandfathers.

Thanks for the info too chaps. Its not often you find people on forums with anything to say other than criticism and abuse.

 

[Jacob]

If it wasn't for other types with the B designation, I'd say the missing rear jaw is the key -- it has some advantages and there are other iron woodworking vices which just use the bench as rear jaw - in the UK there was the ornate '20th century' and a few from the USA, eg some piano-makers as shown in the Studley book.

In fact I mounted both my ww vices with an inserted rear jaw so it doesn't have much function (slight strengthening) and would have been a lot easier to mount a 'B' type (but I'll not part easily with the Parkinsons 10 1/2 in version 1 and the Syers vices (in use this eve) --pah, Record is just a Johnny-come-lately).

I'd say you've 'discovered' a new variant. Could be worth a mint (or not). Worth a para and a picture in the smallworkshop history.

If you wade through the thread I linked Evolution of the Record 52 1/2 quick release vice
there some odd special purpose variants e.g. for "toolmakers" etc. This could have been one - the question being what was there as the rear plate; a particular design of bench?

 

[dannyr]

If you wade through the thread I linked Evolution of the Record 52 1/2 quick release vice
there some odd special purpose variants e.g. for "toolmakers" etc. This could have been one - the question being what was there as the rear plate; a particular design of bench?

Thanks -- looked through the most informative thread (again).

I don't think you need a rear plate or a special design of bench, just a thick bench-top to act as rear jaw - screw on another piece of wood if bench top too thin, or you want it to stand proud of the edge.

 

[DRThomas]

That's what this bench had. A thick top and a jaw section bolted to the bench that matched the one on the vice.

 

[Jacob]

Thanks -- looked through the most informative thread (again).

I don't think you need a rear plate or a special design of bench, just a thick bench-top to act as rear jaw - screw on another piece of wood if bench top too thin, or you want it to stand proud of the edge.

Except that the force opposing the front jaw end up being carried by the bolts attaching the vice to the bench. If not done well I can imagine this being a problem, with the whole vice loosening itself. In other words a bad design - better with a back plate, unless it was designed that way for another reason?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I expected life to go on as normal. How wrong I was. I darent even start my motorcycle anymore through fear of waking the thing.

Live your life as normal - babies and children adjust. Don't paint yourself into a corner.

 

[nabs]

thanks Dan,

that seems to be the mystery solved, the B model is sans rear jaw (as toolsnat says presumably designed for a traditional bench where the rear carriage will be installed behind an apron). Since you appear to be the first person to come across one I think they can't have been very popular

Would you mind if I borrowed your pictures for use on my blog?

 

[nabs]

I missed Jacob's post where he said he had a modern(ish) model that was stamped B also - I have never seen one of those either. Have you got a pic Jacob?
PS the vices with the Registered Design stamped on them were made in the 1920s and 30s.

 

[DRThomas]

thanks Dan,

that seems to be the mystery solved, the B model is sans rear jaw (as toolsnat says presumably designed for a traditional bench where the rear carriage will be installed behind an apron). Since you appear to be the first person to come across one I think they can't have been very popular

Would you mind if I borrowed your pictures for use on my blog?

Of course you can. Be my guest. I can email the full resolution ones if you like?

 

[Jacob]

I missed Jacob's post where he said he had a modern(ish) model that was stamped B also - I have never seen one of those either. Have you got a pic Jacob?
PS the vices with the Registered Design stamped on them were made in the 1920s and 30s.

Tomorrow morning.
My other vice is 52 1/2 D which I assume stands for "Dog" cos it's got a little raisable dog in a socket

 

[Jacob]

I missed Jacob's post where he said he had a modern(ish) model that was stamped B also - I have never seen one of those either. Have you got a pic Jacob?
PS the vices with the Registered Design stamped on them were made in the 1920s and 30s.

Had a closer look in the light of day. It isn't a B it's an E - it was covered in dust! Sorry to be a party pooper!
Happy to take photos if you want but I guess they are both commonplace.
That's a 52 1/2 E and another one with a D. Both new 1980 ish

 

[nabs]

thanks Jacob, yes they are standard fare. After 1963:

• E= Quick release
• D= adjustable dog with Quick release

so I am now pretty confident the B is an unusual and short lived variety without a rear jaw for fitting to a bench with an apron. I wish a Record catalogue from the 1920s/30s would show up (I wonder what other weird and wonderful versions they experimented with?)