Record 043 - Great plough indeed!

[GazPal]

Being a Geordie I went for the identical Rapier No 3, made in Gateshead, which additionally gives me a warm feeling in use.

A great plane. Talking of warmth I must get the lighter fuel out, although I normally use parrafin.

Being a Geordie (Originally from Elswick), I've been tempted to pick up a few examples of Rapier's planes of late, as my grandfather swore by their copies of Record plough planes (His examples were nicked ....erm inherited by a cousin), but I already have a few by Record (Including a 040, 043, 044, etc.) that work very nicely indeedy

 

[aesmith]

My Rapier "43" has just turned up again. Unbelievably I thought it had got lost in the move (or just as bad, mispacked and sitting in some damp place).

Anyway I see the suggestion of 7mm rod to make shorter fence bars. Could someone measure the actual diameter of the original Record ones? The rods on my Rapier are just under 7.9mm which makes me think that 7mm would be too loose a fit. Should it be imperial? But 5/16 is very slightly larger than my measurements. (Edit - 9/32" looks to be too small as well)

Thanks in advance, Tony S

 

[jimi43]

My Rapier "43" has just turned up again. Unbelievably I thought it had got lost in the move (or just as bad, mispacked and sitting in some damp place).

Anyway I see the suggestion of 7mm rod to make shorter fence bars. Could someone measure the actual diameter of the original Record ones? The rods on my Rapier are just under 7.9mm which makes me think that 7mm would be too loose a fit. Should it be imperial? But 5/16 is very slightly larger than my measurements. (Edit - 9/32" looks to be too small as well)

Thanks in advance, Tony S

Mine are a gnat's thingy under 7mm both measuring in imperial 0.274"

I guess they must be 7mm then....I just found some rod that fitted so mine are not original.

This is often the case with cloned types of that period....they would be different enough to not be interchangeable. I would think the Rapier's are 8mm then...although don't take my word for it! :wink:

Cheers

Jim

 

[AndyT]

I just had an idea - a set of drill bits is a good practical way of measuring what size of round thing will fit into a hole!

Using this method on my old Rapier, I find that 8mm and 5/16" are near enough the same and both give a nice sliding fit - so use metric or imperial - whichever you can find to buy.

 

[aesmith]

Drill bits are a good idea, although I wouldn't want to trust the shank of say 8mm to be exactly 8mm. I would think it would be smaller, to make sure its a clearance fit in the hole it's drilled. However I can measure them of course. (Dare I say that I think Elu router fence rods are 8mm?)

 

[Alf]

Anyway I see the suggestion of 7mm rod to make shorter fence bars.

Yes, for the Record 043 - same, but as Jim says, different. Them old toolmakers like to keep us all on our toes, bless 'em. And by "bless 'em", I mean something else entirely...

But it's a fair point. If we can establish the correct size for the Rapier No.3 and maybe the Ruskie copy, I'll append the info to my page when I update it next (which should be soonish).

 

[Modernist]

Anyway I see the suggestion of 7mm rod to make shorter fence bars.

Yes, for the Record 043 - same, but as Jim says, different. Them old toolmakers like to keep us all on our toes, bless 'em. And by "bless 'em", I mean something else entirely...

But it's a fair point. If we can establish the correct size for the Rapier No.3 and maybe the Ruskie copy, I'll append the info to my page when I update it next (which should be soonish).

I will revert in the morning

 

[DTR]

Anyway I see the suggestion of 7mm rod to make shorter fence bars.

Yes, for the Record 043 - same, but as Jim says, different. Them old toolmakers like to keep us all on our toes, bless 'em. And by "bless 'em", I mean something else entirely...

But it's a fair point. If we can establish the correct size for the Rapier No.3 and maybe the Ruskie copy, I'll append the info to my page when I update it next (which should be soonish).

My 043 is a Marples, would you like to know what size rods that takes too?

 

[Harbo]

My Record 43 measures .272" but 7mm Silver Steel rod fits fine.

My Marples 44 measures 9.5mm 0.315"

Rod

 

[aesmith]

I'm not sure if that's a typo or a space warp, here in Aberdeenshire 0.315" = almost exactly 8mm.

Anyway I've exhausted my stock of materials to try, and can report that the original rods are 7.90mm - presumably a slightly undersized 5/16". An Elu fence rod @ 7.95mm is a snug fit, so I think full 8mm would be too big, but 5/16" spot on. Ebay here I come, unless someone knows a better source for small quantities of steel rod. I'm going to go for stainless if I can, since silver steel will be supplied annealed so will be soft anyway.

 

[t8hants]

In my ignorance, am I missing a point here? If rod of the original size is not readily obtainable, then why not ream out the hole the few thou it would need to fit readily available 8mm rod, in bright, brass or s/s to suit ones taste, or is this it must be kept original at all costs thing? I don't have a 043 to see if you can, but from the photos posted it looks do-able.

To my mind museums and glass cabinets are full of completely original tools - never to be used - a working tool will need replacement parts. I am slightly puzzled over this.

Gareth

 

[Vann]

In my ignorance, am I missing a point here? If rod of the original size is not readily obtainable, then why not ream out the hole the few thou it would need to fit readily available 8mm rod, in bright, brass or s/s to suit ones taste, or is this it must be kept original at all costs thing?

Yebbut then if he wants to use his longer rods again they'll flop around in the holes.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Alf]

My 043 is a Marples, would you like to know what size rods that takes too?

Oo, yes please, Dave. The more the merrier.

Gareth, as Vann sez; this is for additional (shorter) rods, rather than total replacement. It's more a "make the tool better for certain jobs" thing than an originality thing. Although actually it's probably easier to get rods the correct size than ream them out anyway. At least IME.

 

[Modernist]

The Rapier No 3 is 5/16", 7.9mm or 0.312" as you prefer.

 

[t8hants]

Quite clearly if you opened the holes out the old rods will be a loose fit, but as the cost of the replacment rod is not that much, a suit of different size rods could then be made - versitility restored!

Gareth

 

[jimi43]

Quite clearly if you opened the holes out the old rods will be a loose fit, but as the cost of the replacment rod is not that much, a suit of different size rods could then be made - versitility restored!

Gareth

I don't think 5/16" rod of any sort is that rare...indeed you can get a metre stainless steel on FLEABAY CLICK CLICK :wink:

Or you could go for BRASS for a bit of class!

I would never modify the body of anything unless there was no option at all and to get it working as a tool...that was the only way.

Jim

 

[Cheshirechappie]

If anybody needs a source of small quantities of Silver Steel, stainless, brass or mild steel round bar (and flats, angles, sheet, hex, tube, etc), try Folkestone Engineering Supplies. They are a model engineer's supplier, and give very good service in my experience.

If buying drawn bright bar, bear in mind that it tends to be a couple of thou (typically 0.003") below nominal size. That doesn't apply to Silver Steel, which is centreless ground to limits of under a thou on nominal. Silver steel will be plenty hard enough for plough fence rods - as will stainless and the medium tensile steels such as EN8, EN16 and EN24. Mild steel (EN3, EN1A) will do as well, but might get a bit burred by the clamp screws.

If your piece of bar is a tad oversized for it's hole, chuck it in a drill-press or leccy drill and polish the outside with emery. That will take off enough to make it a nice slide fit. Don't overdo it, it's easy to take off too much. Use a coarse grade to get a tight fit, then polish with a fine grade for an easy fit and a nice finish. You could even treat the ends to a rounding-off with a smooth file while it's in the chuck.

Reaming holes that are short in depth compared to their diameter is not advisable without setting the job up square in a machine. It would be very easy to get the fence rods out of parallel. Probably better to emery new rods to fit existing holes. Would be worth checking the existing holes for burrs, though.

 

[DTR]

Oo, yes please, Dave. The more the merrier.

I spent four hours in the shed today and forget to check #-o . Sorry, I'll have a look tomorrow.

If anybody needs ...

A few good tips there, thanks for posting

 

[Alf]

No rush - I'm not exactly the world's fastest webpage updater.

At the moment we seem to have a consensus on 5/16" for the Rapier, yep? I'm going to opt for the nearest "round number", metric or imperial, as that seems the clearest for non-engineering types (such as me) to deal with.

 

[DTR]

Huzzah I remembered!

The rods in my MA43 are 0.280" or 7.13mm or 9/32".