Really sharp chisels

[KRS69]

Hello,
I've been sharpening chisels for years and the only thing I can add is practice makes perfect. I only strop on one side as I do find it seems to blunt if done both sides.

 

[rdesign]

jacob if the face has a hollow or isn't flat it makes it impossible to get two perfectly flat planes coming into a sharp point so you need to flatten the top inch of a chisel or a plane blade use the make it turn into a mirror or all even then u know u have it flat and all the hollows out most machine marks are left on cheap chisels. I even had slight flattening to do on my two cherries chisels and my clifton 5&1/2 plane blade which r both higher quality tools.

thats why I recommended flattening the back/face of the chisel

my two cents Richard

 

[Jelly]

They are Footprint, Tyzack and Marples blue chip chisels, so they are not cheap, but neither are they Veritas etc quality.

If they're as good as the Footprint, Tyzack and Marples tools I have, I can't see how Veritas could manage to better them...

 

[Jacob]

jacob if the face has a hollow or isn't flat it makes it impossible to get two perfectly flat planes coming into a sharp point so you need to flatten the top inch of a chisel or a plane blade use the make it turn into a mirror or all even then u know u have it flat and all the hollows out most machine marks are left on cheap chisels. I even had slight flattening to do on my two cherries chisels and my clifton 5&1/2 plane blade which r both higher quality tools.

thats why I recommended flattening the back/face of the chisel

my two cents Richard

There was a fashion for flattening/polishing the whole face which resulted in a lot of people struggling away unhappily for hours and hours. So just the top inch is a lot better!
Personally I don't even think that is necessary - as long as you can turn the flat side down enough to remove the burr is all you need. There's a thread here flattening-chisel-backs-with-lapping-film-t68506-225.html
If the chisel/plane is so bad that you can't turn the burr* then there is the "without a ruler" trick - you lift a bit to make a very slight bevel on the face. I know this is sacreligious with regards to chisels but in the real world it works perfectly well and as the chisel gets used and resharpened, the face gets flatter and the bevel disappears in time.

* This makes it a duff chisel so the simplest thing is to use another one, or if it's new send it back.

 

[riclepp]

Quick get the tin foil hats on, back flatting is back on the radar....TAKE COVER!!! :shock: :shock: ](*,) ](*,)

 

[Jacob]

Quick get the tin foil hats on, back flatting is back on the radar....TAKE COVER!!! :shock: :shock: ](*,) ](*,)

Don't panic I haven't got anything new to say on this. End of the road, same old, same old!

 

[Vann]

...this by stropping in my palm or on the leather strop...

I was taught to strop in my palm, but not on a leather strop.

I thought they were two different functions. Stropping on your hand is to remove the burr. Stropping on a charged leather strop (or MDF) is to give a finer edge. Am I wrong?

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Peter Sefton]

...this by stropping in my palm or on the leather strop...

I was taught to strop in my palm, but not on a leather strop.

I thought they were two different functions. Stropping on your hand is to remove the burr. Stropping on a charged leather strop (or MDF) is to give a finer edge. Am I wrong?

Cheers, Vann.

No you’re not wrong, a fine wire edge can be removed by hand a large wire edge can be removed on the strop and you can improve the edge on the strop or as I said before ruin it (before sharpening war breaks out)
This depends on how fine the grit size and how much metal you have needed to remove to achieve a fresh edge, this does also depend on the quality of the steel in the chisel and if it can take/hold that edge.
Cheers Peter

 

[bugbear]

Hi everyone.
I've been sharpening a batch of chisels recently, and I think they are as sharp as I can get. BUT, I tried them on my (not very hairy) forearm and they glide nicely over the hairs without cutting them - or me, thankfully. They are Footprint, Tyzack and Marples blue chip chisels, so they are not cheap, but neither are they Veritas etc quality.

SO

do people really get their chisels sharp enough to shave with, like they say in the books, or is that just theoretical?

I use 3 grades of diamond 'stone' (they're cheapies though), followed by a good quality extra fine diamond stone. I use an Axminster honing jig, or sometimes an old Eclipse jig, followed by a freehand honing on a leather strop (cut from an old boot) with green honing compound (again from Axminstor - Koch I think).

The chisels cut softwood across the grain with some tearout, so perhaps they are not as sharp as they should be (I don't know), but I can't see what else to do.

Any comments?

My guess (from the information given) is that the chisels were a second hand "box lot", and are all steeply back bevelled to a large degree. This prevents normal sharpening from giving you a good edge.

You certainly have enough sharpening kit to do a good job.

If a large and steep back bevel is present, even a "perfect" low bevel will not result in a fine cutting edge.

But there's not really enough information for this diagnosis to be solid.

BugBear

 

[graduate_owner]

This is starting to get complicated, but I shall persevere nevertheless. Thanks guys.

K

 

[G S Haydon]

Just think carefully before applying back bevels to chisels unless it serves you a purpose. You might not like using screwdrivers.

 

[Jacob]

Just think carefully before applying back bevels to chisels unless it serves you a purpose. You might not like using screwdrivers.

Oh yes only in emergencies. But a sharp screwdriver is better than nothing.

 

[Dangermouse]

Sharpening is mainly b u l l s h i t wrapped in mythical ceremony, served up with a good dose of conviction. I say suck it and see. Try everything, see what works for you and practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice....................................................

 

[Eric The Viking]

Do you have an old 35mm SLR camera in a cupboard somewhere?

If so, the lens, removed and used back to front makes a really high quality magnifying glass.

Just once, so you can _see_ what's happening, go through the sharpening process you use, and look at the edge with your lens as you go. If you're 'going down through the grits', either using stones or scary sharp (wot I use), you will see the roughness of the blade edge decrease as you go. When it's truly sharp you can see it doesn't have a microscopic sawtooth, but it's a pretty straight clean edge.

When you've done that once, forget about it! But I can shave my arm easily with the plane irons and chisels I sharpen, sometimes not at the base of the hair either. The crucial difference seems to be getting the grinding marks from the next-coarsest sharpening out, as you go finer. If you go a step at a time, it works, for me anyway.

Jacob is absolutely right about not polishing the backs - you need the bit near the edge to be as flat and smooth as poss, but the rest is wasted effort.

Hope that helps,

E.

PS: by the way, I don't believe that stropping to remove the burr actually helps, if you want ultra sharpness. The problem is you're actually fracturing the metal to remove it (work hardening it along a very narrow line). This leaves a rough edge, not a fine bevel. Like a kitchen knife, which, if sharpened on a steel, is actually serrated at a microscopic level, it will cut well with a sawing action (or skewed, if a plane), but not when square on to the work. If you keep going down through the grits, you abrade to a finer edge.

I do strop very gently, usually on my jeans, but that's to clean the burr off during the process. At the end, on the finest wet+dry, I don't.

 

[Sawyer]

I don't really care whether my tools cut hairs, as I'm not a barber.
All that interests me is that they perform correctly on wood.
The term 'razor sharp' is an exaggeration anyway - look at a real razor and note how little metal there is behind the cutting edge. Such an edge wouldn't survive a single cut in wood

 

[No skills]

******* hell this is getting way too complicated. If you can get your chisel sharp enough to cut the wood you are using easily and safely then its sharp enough, no need to ponce about with anything more. Your sharpening will improve with practice and consistancy of technique getting you back to work quicker than before (and probably sharper than previous efforts). The only thing else I would like to add is the cheapo diamond stones wear much much faster than the good ones, worth an investment in better ones come replacement time.

 

[Dangermouse]

Damn ! This looks like another sharpening thread, I'M GOING TO KILL MYSELF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ](*,) :evil:

 

[Jacob]

We are aLL DOOMED.

Hope that helps.

 

[J_SAMa]

Maybe your leather strop is rounding the edge over. Try applying the compound onto a piece of wood or MDF.

 

[bugbear]

Do you have an old 35mm SLR camera in a cupboard somewhere?

If so, the lens, removed and used back to front makes a really high quality magnifying glass.

Just once, so you can _see_ what's happening, go through the sharpening process you use, and look at the edge with your lens as you go.

That's a good tip. Wehn you're trying to learn about sharpening, a lens can be a trustworthy source knowledge.

BugBear