r.p 5yr guarantee

[JWD]

Just something i'd like to bring to the attention of the unaware (both buyers and sellers) when purchasing second hand record power machinery

the 5 year guarantee is void upon resale regardless of the age of the unit, be it 5 minutes or 4 years and 364 days.

I found this out the hard way when a machine i purchased required a spare part and i was told the warranty doesn't carry over to a 3rd party.

I am by no means trying to put people off said purchases, nor am i trying to incriminate sellers as i am 100% confident that everyone (at least on this forum) is an honest craftsman and would never try and take advantage of a fellow woodworker. I Just think its important that everyone has the correct information so that sales can be more efficient and everybody gets what they need out of a sale.

Hopefully i haven't offended anyone, and extra hopefully i'm not wrong
Joe

 

[Geoff_S]

Nothing to do with me, but if it was I wouldn't take offence.

Important information useful for everyone to know for future reference.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I thought that was a contravention of the sale of goods act!! My current belief (which may well be wrong) is that as long as the goods have their original receipt then any consumer rights acquired at the time of purchase are conferred in a private transaction??

What have RP officially said that makes you think otherwise? Perhaps couched in such a way as to protect the identity of the innocent.

 

[Geoff_S]

I had a similar problem and the advice that I received was that unless the original warranty states that it is transferrable then the contract is with the original purchaser only.

My situation was a secondhand food mixer that I bought . There were 15 months of the original 5 year warranty left and they also sent me the original receipt from John Lewis. Everything was fine for a while, then Sod's Law the food mixer went wrong. The warranty was still valid and the company was quite happy to honour it but had to be presented by the original purchaser.

Apparently when you buy goods secondhand, your contract is then with the seller and not the original company and if the seller tells you that it has a valid guarantee then your claim is against the seller in describing the goods. The other view that is taken is that you get the secondhand goods at a cheaper price and you are therefore accepting the risk that the goods may be faulty because the price is not the new price, or in other words a price that includes the cost of the warranty.

I found this out because I'm interested in aspects of how the world goes round, not because a food mixer broke. I know the risks of second hand. Some you win, some you lose.

 

[Brandlin]

I thought that was a contravention of the sale of goods act!! My current belief (which may well be wrong) is that as long as the goods have their original receipt then any consumer rights acquired at the time of purchase are conferred in a private transaction??.

The bold underlined section is true for your LEGAL rights... however a warranty granted by the company is offered by the will of the company to the person that enters into the sales contract with them.

It's important to recognise there is a big difference between a waranty and a guarantee, and your basic rights as laid out in consumer law regarding the safety and fitness for purpose of the goods.

Bear in mind that a warranty can be offered by anyone (even if you buy something NEW you are not necessarily buying from the manufacturer, you are often buying from a retailer). Also look at the market for extended car warranties, where you buy a warranty from a 3rd party company - they have nothing to do with the manufacturer. You are buying into a 'bet' that your car wont go wrong... in effect its a form of insurance against product failure.

A second hand seller may suggest to you that there are X months of a warranty remaining. But the warranty is a contractual arrangement between them and the original seller. To transfer it to you, they would need a contractual arrangement for it with you (or for the initial warranty to explicitly state that it is transferrable - like most car companies), and should you then make a claim on the warranty your claim would be with the person that sold you the product NOT the person that they had the initial warranty with.

Some companies will honour their warranties regardless of whether the product has changed hands multiple times, but that is a decision for the company in question and is often taken based on how they want to manage their brand and reputation.

 

[loftyhermes]

Details of Records guarantee are here, http://www.recordpower.co.uk/pages/warranty-details

 

[whiskywill]

Surely these two "rules" are contradictory.

1.2.7 the Product has not been used for hire purposes, by you or by a previous owner;

1.2.8 the Product has been purchased by you as the guarantee is not transferable from a private sale.

 

[whiskywill]

Another contradiction.

3.1 We only supply Products for domestic and private use.

the SABRE-450 features an electromechanical braking system, making it ideal for use in educational environments.

Is an educational establishment domestic or private?

 

[Geoff_S]

Surely these two "rules" are contradictory.

1.2.7 the Product has not been used for hire purposes, by you or by a previous owner;

1.2.8 the Product has been purchased by you as the guarantee is not transferable from a private sale.

I think the technical term for this is "a double whammy".

 

[Geoff_S]

Another contradiction.

3.1 We only supply Products for domestic and private use.

the SABRE-450 features an electromechanical braking system, making it ideal for use in educational environments.

Is an educational establishment domestic or private?

They only supply products for domestic and private use, but hey, if you want to use it in an educational environments, that's up to you. By
the way, did you know it has an electromechanical braking system, making it ideal for use in educational environments? Not that that is what they would supply it for.

My grandfather was a solicitors clerk who told us that you can be on the right side of the law, the wrong side of the law or best avoid it altogether.

 

[OscarG]

I've had the most appalling "support" from RP concerning an obvious fault with one of their bandsaws. Machine bought from new by me, no other owners, 18 months in and they're not remotely interested in even acknowledging the problem let alone honouring the guarantee and fixing/replacing the machine.

I wouldn't worry about the guarantee being transferred to another party as their guarantee appears to be utterly worthless anyway!

 

[Shaggy]

What if it's a present?
Does that mean the person that bought it then gives it to you was covered but not you as the receiver?

 

[pcb1962]

I've had the most appalling "support" from RP concerning an obvious fault with one of their bandsaws. Machine bought from new by me, no other owners, 18 months in and they're not remotely interested in even acknowledging the problem let alone honouring the guarantee and fixing/replacing the machine.

Sounds like they don't agree that the machine is faulty.
Would you like to expand on the nature of the fault?

 

[Brandlin]

What if it's a present?
Does that mean the person that bought it then gives it to you was covered but not you as the receiver?

If they dont "open the box" and pass you the receipt so that you register the product with RP, then you are considered the purchaser.

 

[Tasky]

1.2.7 the Product has not been used for hire purposes, by you or by a previous owner;

Previous owner.... implying th ewarranty is transferable, even if the guarantee is not, as stated by the other one you mentioned.

Is an educational establishment domestic or private?

Can anyone wander in?
Are they a commercial premesis?
Nope?
Private, then.

I expect this is highly debatable and I'm not a legal professional, but that's how I suspect they're viewing it.

they're not remotely interested in even acknowledging the problem let alone honouring the guarantee and fixing/replacing the machine.

This is why Axminster are still in business.

 

[Brandlin]

Surely these two "rules" are contradictory.

1.2.7 the Product has not been used for hire purposes, by you or by a previous owner;

1.2.8 the Product has been purchased by you as the guarantee is not transferable from a private sale.

you need to also read...

1.2.9 where the Product has been purchased from a retailer, the 5 year guarantee is transferable and begins on the date of the first purchase of the Product and in the event of a claim under this guarantee proof of the original purchase date will be required to validate the warranty period.

If you think of the supply chain, they may well sell to a wholesaler, then a retailer, then you. 1.2.8 explicitly says private sale, it does not apply to retail sales.

1.2.9 is guarding themselves against the possibility that a retailer they have sold to hires the product and then sells it on as a retailer.

The clauses are not contradictory.

 

[Brandlin]

Another contradiction.

3.1 We only supply Products for domestic and private use.

the SABRE-450 features an electromechanical braking system, making it ideal for use in educational environments.

Is an educational establishment domestic or private?

Educational establishments are generally not considered to be commercial businesses. Even if you are taking money for running training courses.

These types of clauses are often included so that there can be no claim against the warranty for commercial losses. ie. your table saw broke so i have missed out on 4 contracts with a profit to me of £5000 each....

 

[OscarG]

I've had the most appalling "support" from RP concerning an obvious fault with one of their bandsaws. Machine bought from new by me, no other owners, 18 months in and they're not remotely interested in even acknowledging the problem let alone honouring the guarantee and fixing/replacing the machine.

Sounds like they don't agree that the machine is faulty.
Would you like to expand on the nature of the fault?

I don't wish to hi-jack the thread/bore everyone to tears, I kind of did that before in another thread but here goes...

On my machine the guard extrusion housing the upper guides isn't parallel to the blade. It's not even close, it's miles out. As a result if you set the side guides correctly, when you raise or lower the guard (even a small amount) one of the side guides will constantly touch the blade. So it leaves me with a choice, either a) have both the side guides miles away from blade (rendering them useless!) or b) reset the side guides every single time I raise or lower the guard.

They're telling me the alignment problems are "normal" and I should do b) above.

I think (and others on this forum have backed me up) that b) is unacceptable and that there's a problem with this machine. It certainly flies in the face of their claims to "quality" and "ease of use".

If RP sold cars and I bought one that steered violently to the left, rather than addressing the problem they'd tell me it's normal and to "steer right a bit".

 

[JWD]

Glad i've not made a mistake!

Personally I won't ever be buying record power again, axminster trade all the way

joe

 

[Roughcut]

I mentioned this "clause" on the forum a few months ago to try to make others aware.
I sold a Record Band saw on to someone and assumed the new owner would inherit the remaining warranty that was left (18 months).
I contacted Record to ask the procedure for letting them know of a change of ownership and they referred me to their "terms and conditions" which stated the warranty was non-transferable.