Push Blocks

[iNewbie]

Jacob, here we go again. HSE do NOT recommend push sticks for the planer.

Correct, but neither do they do not deprecate them.

That is not an oversight or them being a bit vague.They very clearly recommend a push stick for a table saw and a push block for a planer.

Correct

The only exception is when you were allowed to rebate on a planer with a Shaw guard where you needed a push stick because of the Shaw guard.
....

Wrong. Their recommendations are just just that; 'recommendations', and not prescriptive. There is absolutely nothing about 'only exceptions' and being 'allowed' or 'not allowed' to use push sticks.
I quite see that it is potentially misleading.

Can anybody think of a reason why push sticks should not be used as I describe?

True, its a guide. Nevertheless when it comes to using small pieces of wood their guidance is to use a Pushblock. Its a must on this page:

"Other dangers are using too small a piece of wood, with kickback causing fingers to contact cutters. Push blocks must be used and consider use of other options such as use of sander if less than 300mm."


http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/planer.htm


"Use a push block when planing short pieces. It should have well­designed handles to give the machinist a firm grip (see Figure 8). This will reduce the risk of a short workpiece dipping as it passes the lip of the in­feed table, which results in abrupt contact with the cutters and can cause kick­back of the workpiece."

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis17.pdf

No guidance to use a push-stick on small pieces, though...

 

[Jacob]

It's arguable whether or not my push sticks are 'push blocks' or not. They certainly aren't just 'sticks'.
And they do say 'consider use of other options' - which is an utterly clear invitation to use unspecified alternatives is it not?

Can anybody think of a reason why push sticks should not be used as I describe (other than the dogged insistence on misinterpreting the rules)?
NB I've been doing it for years now and it's very safe and gives very good control. It's safer than (shorter) push blocks and hence safer than the rule book.

 

[iNewbie]

But their guidance in safety for small pieces is for pushblocks. Thats their overall recommendation.

 

[Jacob]

But their guidance in safety for small pieces is for pushblocks. Thats their overall recommendation.

No it isn't. Their overall recommendation is to not use your hands. They say use push blocks or 'consider use of other options' and in any case they don't define a 'push block'.
I'd say the standard pattern of push stick as much more like a 'push block' than a pointy stick. More blocky than pointy! And definitely the considered use of another option as recommended by the rules.

 

[transatlantic]

Jacob - any chance we could see the technique of using push sticks on your planer? I can't see how it would work? when you see people doing it, they're applying uniform pressure on the piece with their hands to keep it flat. How can you do that with pointy push sticks with very little surface area?

They aren't pointy and they do have surface area. Shaped roughly like a clenched fist. There's a bit of a knack but you soon get it. The pressure and direction is vary variable, downwards, inwards, etc.

Here's a snap from the earlier thread. Breadboard sized piece of maple very safely and controllable being planed. NB should have closed the guard up a bit more - an over-sight , took the photo in a hurry. But in spite of that at no point will my hands get anywhere near the cutters.

planing-do-you-use-pushbocks-t104680.html?hilit=push%20sticks&start=75

Can anybody think of a reason why push sticks should not be used as I describe?
NB I've been doing it for years now and it's very safe and gives very good control.

Thanks! .. by pointy, I meant there is very little surface area you have in contact with that board, as compared to a push block. It just doesn't look like you'd get the uniform pressure, but if you're getting good results, then I guess that speaks for itself

 

[iNewbie]

But their guidance in safety for small pieces is for pushblocks. Thats their overall recommendation.

No it isn't. Their overall recommendation is to not use your hands. They say use push blocks or 'consider use of other options' and in any case they don't define a 'push block'.
I'd say the standard pattern of push stick as much more like a 'push block' than a pointy stick. More blocky than pointy! And definitely the considered use of another option as recommended by the rules.

Jacob its in B&W on that first link. Pushblocks must be used if the piece is 300mm or smaller. Argue all you want just don't point your push-stick at me.

 

[Jacob]

.....
Thanks! .. by pointy, I meant there is very little surface area you have in contact with that board, as compared to a push block. It just doesn't look like you'd get the uniform pressure, but if you're getting good results, then I guess that speaks for itself

Well yes the point is it works very well, though I realise the photo doesn't look convincing!
Maybe the answer is to think of them as 'long handled push blocks'.

 

[sunnybob]

and Bob, you can scratch your bum with a push stick, can't do that with a micro jig gripper.

I saw some people in a mcdonalds in florida who could.

 

[Glynne]

Ive got it now!
You use as push stick instead of a push block except where HSE say you have to use a push block.
Then you redefine your push stick as a push block .........

Push sticks = long handled push blocks?
I don't think so.....

 

[Lonsdale73]

Another awol post! Right, if at first...

I started this thread in the hope it would serve as a cautionary tale and save other users from injury. I'm concerned the message is at risk of being lost. I think irrespective of whether you prefer sticks or blocks I'm certain the use of some aid will reduce the risk of and or severity of injury.

 

[Peter Sefton]

The most important thing is looking after yourself (health and Safety) and sharing your experience is good to make people think about what they are doing. Putting the guards in place and using appropriate push block, push stick or work holders is important used in the correct circumstances. But this is only a small part of the story having sharp and well set up machines is critical, understanding what the machine is doing and what can go wrong are also important factors to keeping safe. Also using the correct machine for the operation in hand, all these factors help keep your fingers safe.

Cheers Peter

 

[John Brown]

According to my wife, all men are "on the autism spectrum". Being a man, and somewhere on the pedantry spectrum as well, I have pointed out that everybody is on the spectrum. That's how a spectrum works.
I do believe, however, that woodworkers tend to be... what? More on the spectrum? Higher on the spectrum? Deeper in the spectrum? Clustered in the visible section? Towards the ultra-violet end of things?
I'm going to stop using the spectrum metaphor, as it's rubbish. I'm switching to Gaussian bell curve.

 

[Jacob]

According to my wife, all men are "on the autism spectrum". Being a man, and somewhere on the pedantry spectrum as well, I have pointed out that everybody is on the spectrum. That's how a spectrum works.
I do believe, however, that woodworkers tend to be... what? More on the spectrum? Higher on the spectrum? Deeper in the spectrum? Clustered in the visible section? Towards the ultra-violet end of things?
I'm going to stop using the spectrum metaphor, as it's rubbish. I'm switching to Gaussian bell curve.

Point taken - difficult not to!
But I will keep blagging on about this because it's a really valuable thing to know; reduces injury risk dramatically, makes work easier, costs bu&&er all.
Those with their noses stuck in the regulations are missing something of value.

 

[Jacob]

The most important thing is looking after yourself (health and Safety) and sharing your experience is good to make people think about what they are doing. Putting the guards in place and using appropriate push block, push stick or work holders is important used in the correct circumstances. But this is only a small part of the story having sharp and well set up machines is critical, understanding what the machine is doing and what can go wrong are also important factors to keeping safe. Also using the correct machine for the operation in hand, all these factors help keep your fingers safe.

Cheers Peter

Absolutely agree!

 

[focusonwood]

My first time using a router table to round over some handles I was making and I must have gone the wrong way and it pulled my finger on to the cutter. A little cut on the side of my finger and a scratched finger nail.

I was lucky I didn't lose a finger.

I learned from that though and won't try routing such small things again by hand.

Being a little scared of workshop machinery is healthy I think...if I find myself getting complacent I search Google images for 'table saw accidents'. Although I have to build up to it and even the thought of it is making me feel queasy!

 

[RobinBHM]

Hi Lonsdale,

Its a horrible feeling getting injured with a woodworking machine, Im glad to hear it wasnt worse!

one of the important parts of a safety setup is actually the work itself -on a surface planer the piece of wood being machined covers the cutters. Short pieces are dangerous because they can be flung out of the way in a flash leaving the cutter exposed. In my joinery workshop I doubt whether any piece of wood shorter than about 600mm would be machined. In fact our 4 sider wont self feed bits of wood shorter than about 750mm so offcuts below that are often thrown out.

 

[memzey]

I'm not saying that my technique is correct but it feels safe and works for me. I always use hands on the planer with the guard in place (with about 1/8" clearance to the top of the stock). I feed the stock in with downward pressure on the infeed table until enough has passed under the guard to give me purchase at which point I switch to applying pressure on the out feed side. I would never put anything as short as 5" over my planer thicknesser. Anything less than about 12" is fun, quick and easy to do with bench planes anyway. For thicknessing my limit is the distance between the feed rollers plus a couple of inches. I can see the merit of Jacob's push stick approach as it keeps digits away from spinning metal but don't use it myself as I feel that benefit is outweighed by having an entirely exposed block at the beginning and end of each stroke. Might just be me but that seems like tempting fate. Anyway for amateurs like me I'd say stay safe, keep all your fleshy bits intact and whatever you are doing must be working.

 

[pollys13]

I know youre going to say "ohh, thats expensive" but I bought the Micro jig GRRipper last year, and I use that a lot more than I used to use old bits of wood.
It can fit almost any shape and I actually enjoy configuring it. Its almost like a meccano set.
I use it on router table and bandsaw equally.

They do look expensive but then what price a digit? Where did you buy yours from? Rutlands have them on offer and - typically - are out of stock, amazon are 50-100% dearer and all the ones on ebay come from the States.

I bought a pair of Grip Blocks from Peter Seftons shop, think he does the Micro Jig Gripper too.

 

[PAC1]

Jacob, HSE guidance is not just about emulation it is about best practice
The reason a push block is recommended on the planer is that it is better at keeping the piece from taking flight if there is kickback. Your push sticks do not hold the piece as stable as a push block.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, HSE guidance is not just about emulation it is about best practice
The reason a push block is recommended on the planer is that it is better at keeping the piece from taking flight if there is kickback. Your push sticks do not hold the piece as stable as a push block.

If there is a risk of kick back;
a. you are doing it wrong and trying to control it with push blocks (or anything) is not good - you should instead back right off and let it fly. Trying to control kickback is one big cause of accidents - people try to grab the workpiece or press harder with the blocks/push sticks etc.
b. with push sticks, if kick back or any other problem occurs, your hands are further away from the cutters

Anyway with push sticks you can hold the work very firmly and steadily. I know they don't look likely candidates but in fact they are much better than they look. Took me some time to find this out.

I'll say it again (again and again!) - I'm recommending a much higher standard of safety than the usual interpretation of the regs (push blocks etc) with more hands off and away. Luckily it also gives you a higher degree of control.