Poor english

[lurker]

Am I the only one who is irritated by the misuse of "myself" & "yourself", when people mean me or you.

There is a prevalence of how people usually those who speak to customers saying "yourself" because they seem to think that "you" is somehow too assertive.

Drives me mad!!! :twisted: :twisted:

 

[Tusses]

Chill

 

[Gill]

There are so many deviations from standard English grammar that if I was to get worked up every time I encountered one, I'd need therapy :lol: . Instead, I luxuriate in the pompous thought that I'm better educated than the poor old soul who's at fault.

So long as poor grammar doesn't confuse the message, I can tolerate a multitude of sins. I'm probably quite a sinner too!

Gill

 

[Saintsman]

Don't start me off................

'Could of' intead of 'could have'...................

'Cheap prices' and 'hot temperatures'.

'Less people' instead of 'fewer people'

'There's' instead of 'there are'

And best of all, the unnecessary apostrophe, as seen in my local petrol station: 'Petrol can's must be used' and 'Crisp's, 50p'

Don't they learn 'em nothing no more ?

Just call me Victor...........................................

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

It's not the grammar that winds me up so much but the spelling. I'm not perfick in any way (I always use the spell checker) when it comes to trying to get things right, but I do make the attempt, not withstanding the occasional typo that gets past the checker ('fiends' instead of 'friends' was my latest gaff :lol: ) One that irritates me beyond belief ](*,) is something we had recently...draw instead of drawer - Rob...in Meldrew mode.

 

[Grinding One]

You have not lived till you visit the good old USA,now you have a country that can ruin any language...
Ya`ll come back now ya/here

 

[mailee]

Unfortunitely most of our bad English comes from the USA. I agree that correct grammar does not seem to be taught anymore. I just ignore it all now as it is so commonplace. :?

 

[RogerS]

I hate 'for sure'. What happened to 'certainly'?

It's not the grammar that winds me up so much but the spelling. .

Well, with this little gem of a website, there is no excuse

 

[Digit]

Whilst sympathising with all of the above and deploring the low standards of modern usage, (try some of the DSS papers!) English is an evolving language.
Most of us would have difficulty with works by Darwin which is quite recent, but you might like to try your hand at this and see if you can identify a title.

ICH wes in one sumere dale
In one swiþe dyele hale
Iherde ich holde grete tale
An vle and one nyhtegale.
5: Þat playd wes stif & starc & strong
Sum hwile softe & lud among;
And eyþer ayeyn oþer swal,
And let þat vuele mod vt al.
And eyþer seyde of oþres custe
10: Þat alre-wrste þat hi ywuste:
& hure & hure of oþres songe
Hi holde playding swiþe stronge.
Þe Nihtegale bigon þo speke
In one hurne of one beche,

 

[StevieB]

Instead, I luxuriate in the pompous thought that I'm better educated than the poor old soul who's at fault.

Hmm, why is it that we equate poor English with poor education? One could be a spectacular mathematician, intelligent beyond belief, yet if your written prose is inaccurate the assumption is that you are lacking a good education. Apart from the issue of dyslexia, and the issue of typing slower than your brain thinks, English is not the be all and end all of our education system.

As already stated, language is an evolving phenomenon. It changes and gets adapted, mutated and mutilated into other forms until that form becomes the norm. We may not like text speak, or leetspeak, but why should we assume its use denotes a poor education?

I know plenty of people with PhD's whose written English is poor, but I wouldnt call them poorly educated.

Steve.

 

[NickWelford]

'Less people' instead of 'fewer people'

This must be top (of many) of my particular hates.

 

[Digit]

I know plenty of people with PhD's whose written English is poor, but I wouldnt call them poorly educated.

I would! Many teachers were themselves led to believe in the 60s that punctuation, grammar, spelling etc were not important.
They now tell modern students the same, I know this from my own children/grand children.
That is poor education, not lacking in intelligence though!

Roy.

 

[Gill]

I know plenty of people with PhD's whose written English is poor, but I wouldnt call them poorly educated.

I would!

Me too! An education which fails to instil a comprehension of basic skills is an inadequate education. For instance you might be the most skilled specialist in the world, but if you can't communicate adequately with your peers then your potential will not be realised.

Gill

 

[StevieB]

You miss my point - they are only poorly educated in English, not necessarily poorly educated in everything.

The BBC news website did a feature recently on why it is seen as almost cool, and certainly acceptable, to be seen as poor in Maths but not English. (this was in relation to Maths teaching and Britain's position in some league table of countries). There is a tendancy to see English as a benchmark which if one fails to meet it, one is considered in a certain light that they would not be viewed in had they failed to meet a similar benchmark in a different skill.

Do you

luxuriate in the pompous thought that I'm better educated than the poor old soul who's at fault

when you can add together two numbers that someone else cannot? Or when you scroll a piece of work that someone else couldnt do? I suspect not. So why do we get that feeling when our English is better than someone elses?

Reading that it sounds like an attack, it isnt meant to be but I am leaving it in because it illustrates my point. Why is English seen as the most important benchmark we all have to meet, and global assumptions drawn about other skill areas if we fail to meet that English benchmark?

Steve.

 

[Gill]

Yup . Luxuriating in pomposity is great fun, but don't let anyone else catch you doing it :-$ :lol: .

Am I really missing your point? I rather think I see it but I disagree . We all need basic tools to survive in life and good communication skills are important. They're part of how we present ourselves, how we represent what is going on inside our head. Muddled English is often a sign of a muddled mind. I accept there are exceptions, but generally speaking I find this to be true. It's part of presenting ourselves and impressing others. If we can't present ourselves well enough in the first place, we won't be given a chance to make an impression.

Gill

 

[Digit]

I think I can answer that in this manner Steve. As an engineering student I had to achieve a certain written standard in English before I could obtain membership of the Institute. Their reasoning was that as a member I could be expected to achieve a certain degree of seniority.
Later I worked as a development engineer and part of my work included writing technical reports on certain electrical items for the Board.
Bad English would not have been acceptable as they needed to understand exactly what I was telling them
Another example is the requirement for medical doctors to demonstrate a good command of the language.
Look what happened to John Prescott, he was treated as a joke because of his poor command of English, to the degree that his message was often ignored.

Roy.

 

[StevieB]

Another example is the requirement for medical doctors to demonstrate a good command of the language

But why do we assume that if they do not have a good command of English they are a bad doctor, but if they demonstrate a poor ability at Maths the same assumtion is not made? I teach medical students on a daily basis as a job, some have good English some poor, but there is no correlation I have observed as to whether they make good doctors or not in terms of the medical care they provide.

Gill, happy to agree to disagree with you :wink: I am not sure how to luxuriate in pomposity but it sounds like fun!

Steve.

 

[Rich]

Whilst sympathising with all of the above and deploring the low standards of modern usage, (try some of the DSS papers!) English is an evolving language.
Most of us would have difficulty with works by Darwin which is quite recent, but you might like to try your hand at this and see if you can identify a title.

ICH wes in one sumere dale
In one swiþe dyele hale
Iherde ich holde grete tale
An vle and one nyhtegale.
5: Þat playd wes stif & starc & strong
Sum hwile softe & lud among;
And eyþer ayeyn oþer swal,
And let þat vuele mod vt al.
And eyþer seyde of oþres custe
10: Þat alre-wrste þat hi ywuste:
& hure & hure of oþres songe
Hi holde playding swiþe stronge.
Þe Nihtegale bigon þo speke
In one hurne of one beche,

You've been listening to Stanley Unwin again have'nt you? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rich.

 

[Digit]

If you check back on my posts Steve you will find that I specifically denied that idea.

For the best innner picket of the brewflade, Flowers!
Don't worry you youngsters, the oldsters on here will remember!

Roy.

 

[Argee]

Why is English seen as the most important benchmark we all have to meet, and global assumptions drawn about other skill areas if we fail to meet that English benchmark?

I'm not sure what you mean by "global assumptions," but in answer to the first part of your quote above, perhaps it's to do with the fact that it's mainly how we communicate, since English is our National language. Most use is made of this communication by talking and listening, then reading, then writing. Over the years, the standard of accuracy has decreased, the possibility of misinterpretation has increased, but there seems little regard for the importance of either.

In my career I couldn't risk misinterpretation or inaccuracy, although I was expected to cater for all the foibles of language trends, "fashionable" words and phrases, etc. In the not-too-distant past, shorthand skills - particularly Pitman skills - were highly prized, now anyone can type "how r u doin m8" and some even think it's cool.

That aside, language use is a skill and - like many others - I like to be proficient at whatever skill I undertake. If that's seen as a benchmark, then what's wrong with that? To do otherwise is, in many cases, bad mannered, mostly lazy and on occasion, disrespectful.

Ray.