Planning application

[SDev]

Good point. Thanks. I guess I will will need to do the pre application at least.

 

[HOJ]

without paying £200 for formal pre planning advice

Seems a lot, I've just done one in my area, cost £90.00 and that was for major alterations to a bungalow, room in the roof conversion, which I knew we would be unlikely to get PP on, and we wont, so back to the drawing board, following their recommendations.

If your pre planning fee is £200.00 just go for full planning, you will still have to provide drawings and details irrespective.

 

[Fitzroy]

Very interesting thread. Obviously a lot of experience and expertise on planning here. At the risk of hijacking someone else’s discussion, does anyone know if replacing one outbuilding with a bigger one of the same height will require planning permission? It’s at the end of a 50m garden, within 1m of boundary. PD says only 2.5m high at this distance but the existing shed is 3.6m high. I want a bigger workshop! Nothing on any planning portal and you can’t phone the planning department without paying £200 for formal pre planning advice.

Make it a repair, leave a few original bricks in place, trigger's broom

 

[Matt635]

Very interesting thread. Obviously a lot of experience and expertise on planning here. At the risk of hijacking someone else’s discussion, does anyone know if replacing one outbuilding with a bigger one of the same height will require planning permission? It’s at the end of a 50m garden, within 1m of boundary. PD says only 2.5m high at this distance but the existing shed is 3.6m high. I want a bigger workshop! Nothing on any planning portal and you can’t phone the planning department without paying £200 for formal pre planning advice.

For England (the rules are different elsewhere) There is a good explainer of permitted development rights at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...nt-rights-for-householders-technical-guidance. Look at class E (outbuildings) in particular. Note that this is for 'incidental' outbuildings.
If its a replacement building and breaches the limits in the permitted development regs then it will need permission. Even if you extend what is there already, if the resultant building would exceed the limits then it will need permission (the regs cover for the alteration of an existing building).
Hope this helps!

 

[Molynoox]

Brilliant and great idea to be a general builder rather than garden rooms. You can be Essex’s version of Robin Clevett and work on nice premium projects with good clients

Haha I would love to be anything like as talented and successful as RC. He kinda does all the building stuff too though, he project manages the builds he does. But I know what you mean, premium builds premium customers... I've been super lucky with the best customers so far and it's a good parallel in that regard.

 

[benitod]

Planning any activity requires answers to five questions, not necessarily in this order:
What do I have to do?
Where do I have to do it?
When do I have to do it?
Who will do it?
How do I do it?
The last one is, for me the most important because having the other four answers I need to find a sequence to reduce the downtimes.

 

[Molynoox]

I have the quotation for the planning application.
They have quoted £1,500 ex VAT and excluding any other fees like the application itself and other items they list such as consultancy fees. See extract below:

So I am reading this to mean the £1500 covers the cost to do the drawings only basically.
The only cost I would expect on top of that 1500 is the £350 or whatever it is for the Maldon Council planning application fee. Unless I am missing something?

thanks
Maritn

 

[HOJ]

That's in line with my previous post @ £2K, they don't mention specifically if any input is needed from an SE, so that may be have to be accounted for as well.

Disbursement may well be for things like buying the location plans on line from someone like Buy a Plan

Looks like the price can only go up, though, that's where if any changes are needed/requested will all add to the cost.

 

[Molynoox]

That's in line with my previous post @ £2K, they don't mention specifically if any input is needed from an SE, so that may be have to be accounted for as well.

Disbursement may well be for things like buying the location plans on line from someone like Buy a Plan

Looks like the price can only go up, though, that's where if any changes are needed/requested will all add to the cost.

Yeah bang in line with what you said originally

Thanks for the additional info, I had no clue what that other stuff was.

 

[HOJ]

Any use:

 

[Molynoox]

Any use:

View attachment 187691

Wow thanks

 

[pe2dave]

I have the quotation for the planning application.
They have quoted £1,500 ex VAT and excluding any other fees like the application itself and other items they list such as consultancy fees. See extract below:


View attachment 187663


So I am reading this to mean the £1500 covers the cost to do the drawings only basically.
The only cost I would expect on top of that 1500 is the £350 or whatever it is for the Maldon Council planning application fee. Unless I am missing something?

thanks
Maritn

So it's not a quote?
Ask for one, all inclusive, that is reliable.

 

[akirk]

So it's not a quote?
Ask for one, all inclusive, that is reliable.

you won't get a more accurate one... It is worth understanding the components:

- their fee (£1,500 + VAT)
- Local Planning Authority fees - you just pay what the council charge
- External consultant fees - this covers them if for example you need a structural engineer / planners require a bat company to count bats etc.
- Disbursements - ad-hoc for anything they pay out on your behalf
- 'it can cost less, it can cost more' - that is standard - they know from experience that they can deliver what is required at their estimated fee, however every client of theirs is different - and the client might for example change project details from e.g. a two car garage to a four car garage with living accommodation above mid-project - this covers them so that they can continue to work or the client.

We work in this way as well - it can take a while to get your head around not having a fixed price, but it actually makes work much cheaper - e.g. if an average project is £1k and there can be a variance of up to £400 to give a fixed price would have to be £1,500 realistically to guarantee that the supplying company is not losing out and there is a problem with that - it means that you will always be charged more than you are likely to cost - charging by reflecting actual time and costs is in fact the fairest way of doing it...

 

[pe2dave]

you won't get a more accurate one... It is worth understanding the components:

- their fee (£1,500 + VAT)
- Local Planning Authority fees - you just pay what the council charge
- External consultant fees - this covers them if for example you need a structural engineer / planners require a bat company to count bats etc.
- Disbursements - ad-hoc for anything they pay out on your behalf
- 'it can cost less, it can cost more' - that is standard - they know from experience that they can deliver what is required at their estimated fee, however every client of theirs is different - and the client might for example change project details from e.g. a two car garage to a four car garage with living accommodation above mid-project - this covers them so that they can continue to work or the client.

We work in this way as well - it can take a while to get your head around not having a fixed price, but it actually makes work much cheaper - e.g. if an average project is £1k and there can be a variance of up to £400 to give a fixed price would have to be £1,500 realistically to guarantee that the supplying company is not losing out and there is a problem with that - it means that you will always be charged more than you are likely to cost - charging by reflecting actual time and costs is in fact the fairest way of doing it...

So totally untrustworthy? And I would still insist it is not a quote, it's a (very vague) estimate?

 

[Molynoox]

you won't get a more accurate one... It is worth understanding the components:

- their fee (£1,500 + VAT)
- Local Planning Authority fees - you just pay what the council charge
- External consultant fees - this covers them if for example you need a structural engineer / planners require a bat company to count bats etc.
- Disbursements - ad-hoc for anything they pay out on your behalf
- 'it can cost less, it can cost more' - that is standard - they know from experience that they can deliver what is required at their estimated fee, however every client of theirs is different - and the client might for example change project details from e.g. a two car garage to a four car garage with living accommodation above mid-project - this covers them so that they can continue to work or the client.

We work in this way as well - it can take a while to get your head around not having a fixed price, but it actually makes work much cheaper - e.g. if an average project is £1k and there can be a variance of up to £400 to give a fixed price would have to be £1,500 realistically to guarantee that the supplying company is not losing out and there is a problem with that - it means that you will always be charged more than you are likely to cost - charging by reflecting actual time and costs is in fact the fairest way of doing it...

That's useful info thanks.
I'm sort of on the fence a bit with how I feel about it though, I get they have to leave room for extra unforseen costs but they should know the planning application fees so why not include those, at least as a placeholder to give clients an idea.

Martin

 

[akirk]

So totally untrustworthy? And I would still insist it is not a quote, it's a (very vague) estimate?

not sure why you feel that is untrustworthy at all...
an no -it is not a vague estimate - we have 20 years of running our business and can give very accurate estimates - 99% of the time changes are simply because the client changes their mind mid-project, if I had to allow within a fixed quote for the maximum additional work they might ask for then most of the time they would be over-charged...
If you look at big consultancies (the types of projects where they work with government and other big businesses) it is one of the reasons that prices are so high - and yet still the variances clauses allow the costs to increase...

Our approach is far more honest - what it ultimately says is that you will only pay for what you use in terms of our time and we expect that to be x - and if it is likely to be more we will discuss that with you first - which is what they are saying above - seems pretty open and honest.

 

[akirk]

That's useful info thanks.
I'm sort of on the fence a bit with how I feel about it though, I get they have to leave room for extra unforseen costs but they should know the planning application fees so why not include those, at least as a placeholder to give clients an idea.

Martin

that makes sense - I don't know a lot about planning fees - might they vary? If fixed then arguably they are already published so the client can see them anyway... if they can vary then it makes sense to not include them...

I think this is a common reaction - we all feel that if something doesn't go to plan - we would ideally like someone else to take responsibility - but ultimately there are too many unknowns in the planning and construction world, so it makes sense to recognise that - and if something unexpected happens (such as needing a bat survey) then that is an additional cost which is the client's to bear so it does make sense to allow for that - and to not have that option means they would have to add the cost in to a fixed quote - so you would pay it whether or not you need it...

 

[HOJ]

(such as needing a bat survey)

Don't forget the Great crested newts as well, they may also want a hedge/tree survey, input from Highways, the Water board, if anywhere near pipes or sewers, British gas etc, the list is long and distinguished, but that wont necessarily become apparent until the application is submitted and the relevant external authorities are consulted.

 

[XTiffy]

As I have (hopefully) just finished the build of a detatched house for Daughter and SiL. I can attest to bitter experience that the whole building experience is a nightmare. ( we have built four houses before this one but never again. Some have commented above in a light hearted way about various surveys being required. They are not a joke but real and costly. Bat/Eco was over £800, several thousand for surface water levels and percolation tests. Demand for "wild flower areas to protect nature", a Bee brick incorporated. No external lights without a planning application, it goes on and on. Most of these conditions are published so that only a consultant can provide the paperwork, usually by an ex-planning officer gone private. This new government have pledged to build 1.5 Million homes in the next five years, "Go figure".

 

[Molynoox]

I am stuck.
I have started doing the application and I am at the stage of site plan and location plan. I have read about them so understand what is expected. I think. I just can't get what I want.

1. I have tried using the planning portal in-built location plan selector tool, but because the development is pretty new, the area I need is just one large blank plot. I put in the exact easting and northing for the location as the postcode wasn't enough.
2. I have tried using 'ReQuestaPlan' as recommended on the planning portal, and this is slightly better but I still don't get what I need
3. looking at the applications made by the planning company for neighbouring properties, they seem to have a nice looking site plan - perhaps they created it themselves.

Supporting pictures for the numbered points above:

1. planning portal auto selector tool

2. ReQuestaPlan offering:

3. what the planning company included in their planning application:

Question:

how do I proceed - should I draw a detailed site plan myself like the other planning company have? I am happy to do that but I don't want to waste my time if there is a better / easier way....

thanks for any guidance.

@HOJ how do you handle new builds?