Plane sharpening help please

[Corneel]

I interpret the OP's question differently. He is trying to learn an new skill, a very valuable skill for a woodworker, and then some people try to talk it out of his head. "Continue using the jig". That's not a very constructive answer.

To help the OP, here is a quick video of me sharpening a plane blade. Caveat: I use the toolrest of the dry grinder, so it isn't pure freehand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ehSrX1Dx78

 

[G S Haydon]

Hello bexupnorth

Your problem does sound initially quite odd. I think the term practice, practice, practice comes into play. Did you always have good results with the jigs?
There are lots of free video tutorials on line and it would be worth watching a few. Watch how different people choose different ways to move the blades on the stone and find one that resonates with you.
Paul Sellers has an example of a certain approach, while there are the Japanese craftspeople that move the blade quite differently. Watch them, and try to copy the one you like the look of.
One thing is for sure there is no wrong way, only the method that gives you the sharpest edge in the shortest time based on your work and tools. Sounds easy doesn't it :wink:. Keep us updated with progress and what worked for you, it will help others.

Graham

 

[Paul Chapman]

When you give real honest advice, you should add that using the jig leads you away from the ultimate path to sharp edges on ALL woodworking tools. Freehand sharpening is a skill that needs to be learned anyway, sooner or later. Better get it out of the way right at the start. As soon as you are addicted to the jig, learning freehand when you really need it will take more effort.

Not at all. I use a combination of honing guide and free-hand when necessary, such as when honing shaped, combination plane blades.

I normally use DMT stones with oil and various honing guides



I follow this with Autosol and oil on a piece of quarter sawn wood




When honing shaped blades, such as beading cutters, I'll hone the flat piece using a guide and the shaped piece freehand - in this case on an MDF wheel in a drill



Works really well.

It's not as cut and dried as guide or no guide. We all eventually find what works best for us.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Corneel]

Well, if it works for you, all the better. How do you sharpen a gouge? And do you get it as sharp as a chisel in a reasonable amount of time?

 

[bexupnorth]

Well after trying not to I seem to have sparked the mother of all debates, sorry.

To set the record straight, I do get reasonable and reproducible results when using a jig. However, I want to learn to do it freehand simple as that. With freehand I find myself stopping regularly to sharpen and have a bit of think when working. With jigs I don't. No idea why and for once I'm not going to force it.

So no more about jigs Okay? I know they work and I know when to use them, I just want to learn a new skill.

Jacob, I live about 30 miles north of York, so I'm not on your doorstep, but that's a very kind offer that I'd like to take you up on one day. I suspect there'll be a few more questions you can help me with too, thank you.

Many thanks to all who have replied, tried to keep this on track and also given me tons of stuff to go at. For reference I'm trying to follow the Grimesdale method (having re-read it since I posted this I'm not doing it very well) as I like the idea of a rounded blade that "never" needs to be correction ground (yeah I know, I'm deluding myself). I now believe it all goes wrong when I'm drawing the blade towards myself because I'm raising the blade angle as I go, sometimes even going past the vertical as I finish my stroke. This will result in me rounding over the edge AND getting too steep an angle at the same time. I do test the blade on my thumbnail and it's sharp, but the dynamics are all wrong to allow it to cut.

Anyway, I now need to get back in the workshop and practice.

Thanks again,

Ade.

 

[Reggie]

I wouldn't worry about sparking debates, I've done the same fairly recently with plane and chisel sharpening too. Look at all the advice and then make your own mind up, don't be bullied into something you don't want to do or turned away from something you want to try.

 

[Corneel]

Yes don't worry about the debate. All those involved are just having a bit of fun.

With the Grimsdale method you really need to see Jacob. He's the same guy.

 

[bugbear]

For reference I'm trying to follow the Grimesdale method (having re-read it since I posted this I'm not doing it very well) as I like the idea of a rounded blade that "never" needs to be correction ground (yeah I know, I'm deluding myself).

Jacob AKA grimsdale had a disciple, a while back. He made some useful videos, and has continued to adapt and develop convex bevels. You may find his experience and point of view helpful.

http://www.closegrain.com/2010/04/grimsdale-method.html

He uses rather more, and finer grained, abrasives than Jacob's "Norton fine does everything" approach, and he's also a back-flattener.

Over time, he's evolved a slightly different system;

http://www.closegrain.com/2012/07/conve ... ening.html
http://www.closegrain.com/2012/07/conve ... art-2.html

http://www.closegrain.com/2012/08/doubl ... ening.html
http://www.closegrain.com/2012/08/doubl ... ng_24.html

The approach has essentially morphed into a classic "grind low and rough, hone high and fine", bit it took two years to do so...

He's also tried other systems:

http://www.closegrain.com/2012/09/hollo ... ening.html

He's come to a conclusion...

As with all the other methods I've practiced, I was able to get excellent results. The key lessons to be learned are that there are many ways to sharpen that work well (though people will endlessly debate multiple aspects of each), but that they all take an investment in time and practice. Some may offer quicker success, but it's not that difficult to get them all on par.

BugBear

 

[bexupnorth]

Thanks Bugbear,

Some very interesting reading there (not just on sharpening) and some words of wisdom to go with them.

Regards,

Ade.

 

[bexupnorth]

Thanks folks,

Works a treat now. As suspected it was my technique, slices through knots and you can barely tell when planing aginst the grain now it's so sharp.

 

[Corneel]

Congratulations

 

[Vann]

I've only just read this thread (I guess I'd been avoiding it as it was inevitable that it would turn into an argument).

Anyway - 7 pages :!: and right from the first post it was obvious what the problem is - and you ALL missed it....

The problem is my planes are clearly sharp, but only seem capable of cutting in one direction.

Any ideas?

Yup. They're only supposed to cut in one direction - knob to the front, tote to the rear....

I'll get me coat... (hammer)

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Kalimna]

Well, Vann, you *might* have hit the nail on the head there, if it wasnt for the fact that some planes (those of HNT Gordon ferinstance) can be held either way, and pushed *or* pulled along the wood. Now, theres a caveat there, but why spoil a lighthearted reply with mere truth?

Adam

 

[bexupnorth]

I'll get me coat

Could have been worse, you could have mentioned the boy band...

 

[G S Haydon]

For reference I'm trying to follow the Grimesdale method (having re-read it since I posted this I'm not doing it very well) as I like the idea of a rounded blade that "never" needs to be correction ground (yeah I know, I'm deluding myself).

Jacob AKA grimsdale had a disciple, a while back. He made some useful videos, and has continued to adapt and develop convex bevels. You may find his experience and point of view helpful.

http://www.closegrain.com/2010/04/grimsdale-method.html

He uses rather more, and finer grained, abrasives than Jacob's "Norton fine does everything" approach, and he's also a back-flattener.

Over time, he's evolved a slightly different system;

http://www.closegrain.com/2012/07/conve ... ening.html
http://www.closegrain.com/2012/07/conve ... art-2.html

http://www.closegrain.com/2012/08/doubl ... ening.html
http://www.closegrain.com/2012/08/doubl ... ng_24.html

The approach has essentially morphed into a classic "grind low and rough, hone high and fine", bit it took two years to do so...

He's also tried other systems:

http://www.closegrain.com/2012/09/hollo ... ening.html

He's come to a conclusion...

As with all the other methods I've practiced, I was able to get excellent results. The key lessons to be learned are that there are many ways to sharpen that work well (though people will endlessly debate multiple aspects of each), but that they all take an investment in time and practice. Some may offer quicker success, but it's not that difficult to get them all on par.

BugBear

Nice links, always good to see the journey of others.

 

[reggyboy]

Wow this has turned into a right old to do..lol.I'm just glad i learnt to hone when i started to restore cut-throat razors.There is no short cut to taking them from blunt to shave ready! :lol: