Plane Crazy

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Alf,
I am forever your Toolslave :wink: Darn collector blackmail.......
Matt,
I speak with , eh, experience-buy what you need, not what you want. (at least for a little while.... :lol: )
tail between his legs,
Philly :roll:
 
thanks for all the advice folks,
what are the main advantages of adjustable mouth block planes over apron planes?
 
Matt. couple of points..

re jap chisels; granted there's little to beat them for cutting ability, but you absolutely must not use them to leverage waste... they're too brittle...
For that reason, selecting the optimum set of chisels is a trial by fire, each seeming to have their up and down side...

re adjustable mouth planes... their main advantage is their control / prevention of tear-out. Simply tune the blade, set how fine a cut you want to take and adjust the mouth to suit. I learned the hard way that you're wasting your time with new Record / Stanley; as I said before, you get what you pay for...
 
One other note to consider...

Most of the suggestions thus far have covered cutting tools of one description or another; no matter how good they are straight out of the box, they need to be kept sharp to maintain them in that condition. Have you thought about which direction you want to go here??

In addition... one other vital (to me at any rate) "tool" has been my slowly expanding library... learning and understanding which tools / materials / joints are more suitable to certain tasks is a continual process, aided no end with good reading material...
 
Near as I can tell, sharpening systems are limited to a few choices; oil / water / diamond stones, powered horizontal, powered vertical or handraulic... each have their own swings and roundabouts, no single one of them standing head an shoulders above any other... the trick is finding which system best suits you...

Personally I use Jap waterstones in conjunction with a couple of honing guides; they don't take up much space, they cut real quick and generate an incredible edge... downsides are... they're real messy and pretty soft, needing frequent flattening sessions... some of the finer grits can be pretty expensive. That said, stones can be collected over time, spreading the cost out. Some of the powered systems need a significant outlay up front to buy the basic system, accessories costing extra..
 
i have tried the japanese waterstone kit from axminster, and didnt get on with it too well.
granted, it cut very quickly, and the edge was very sharp,
but i also fond that it was so sharp, it was easily dinked
as my work is mainly onsite, i found the fine DMT stone an easier option as they take up next to no room in the tool bag.
im not too keen on the powered route, as i am always worried about overheating, and the tool losing its temper.
luckily, i seem to have steady enough hands to not require a honing guide,
i have tried one, but found it very hard to keep the tool square to the guide,
consequently a skewed edge followed! although the paring chisels my dad uses are all skewed, to aid the ease of paring very hard woods perhaps?
 
matt use sticky back felt for the liners its easy to cut and fit and comes in a few colours .
 
At the risk of sounding boring, I really would suggest getting decent measuring and marking tools. I'm a novice (woodworker, not nun), and found very quickly that there's little point in having good cutting and planing tools, if the stock or workpiece is out of square or smaller/shorter/longer/thinner than you'd intended. It can be absolutely maddening.

Top of the list, I think, would have to be an enginneer's square. Absolutely indispensable: it's the first thing I reach for when in the gar...workshop. It's a real eye-opener if you test a run-of-the-mill so-called carpenter's square against the engineer's variety. I picked up a small incarnation of the latter for about £5.

Second, a marking guage. I like the wheel-type ones, and see that Alf has suggested the Titemark-Lie Nielsen version, which, no doubt, is excellent, but it makes a hefty £67 pound dent in one's wallet. I've got Axminster's version, which isn't too shabby, and comes in at about £17.

Hope the above hasn't given egg-sucking instructions to a gandparent.

You've mentioned chisels. I steered clear of Japanese ones, because some can be very short, which might present sharpening problems. Also, some of them, I believe, need their handles to be finished: something to do with the hoops and belting them with a hammer. (Apologies to the better informed, who are no doubt wincing at my ignorance.) On the plus side, though, the backs of Japanese chisels are easier to flatten, I suspect.

I've got a set of Kirschen/ Two Cherries chisels, and I like them. Their edges last quite a time (although nowhere near the time of Jap. chisels, I imagine), and they feel good in the hand, although Alf, I seem to remember, doesn't like the varnish on them or the hoops, which she thinks look cheap. On the down side, whilst the Two Cherries come mirror-polished, I found that that doesn't mean the backs are flat; I took a great deal of time flattening them on waterstones. Yet, on balance, I think these chisels are a good buy, and you'd have to pay a lot more for anything significantly better.

As for saws, you might want to keep an eye on ebay or at boot fairs for good, old saws. I have a couple of Disstons that are wonderful. However, if I had the pennies I'd plump for the Adria or Lie-Nielsens. One note of caution, though, on buying a decent saw: unless you want to learn how to sharpen a back saw, you need to find a good saw doctor, who won't just use a machine to cut new teeth. Someone on the forum even encountered a saw doctor who didn't know the difference between a rip and x-cut. Not good if you send or take a £100 saw to a nit-wit. For what it's worth, a while ago, I posted an address for Davenport Saws, who might be good; I seem to remember that David Charlesworth, a hand tool guru, also recommended them.

You wrote that you were wary of using a powered sharpener, given the risk of overheating the steel of the tool. I agree that the run-of the-mill bench grinders can be a nightmare: I've inadvertently turned cheap, normal length chisels into butt chisels that way, and wouldn't let my Kirschen chisels within 20 feet of my grnder. There is, however, a well-known wet grinder that is highly regarded by some: the Tormek. Yet, at nearly £300 pounds, its purchase might be grounds for divorce, unless, through guile and Special Forces tactics, you manage to sneak it past S.W.M.B.O. I've recently been using watersones, but find the constant need to flatten them a pain in the rear; they can also make a ruddy mess, and I remain concerned that getting water near anyting made of steel is asking for trouble, although I have recently seen an advert for some potion or other that can be added to the water to prevent rust.

You might want to try something called Scary Sharp (google it), which is a sharpening technique that uses a succession of different wet 'n' dry grits to flatten the back of, and sharpen, plane and chisel blades. I liked it, and it taught me a lot about sharpening, but you may find you don't like the messy spray-glue or running out of sandpaper when you most need to sharpen something. I think I actually prefer it to waterstones, which I am beginning to dislike.

Apart from the above, planes, planes, planes. But be careful, they are addictive. Completely, utterly, absol......

Well, I hope some of this is useful, and that you'll forgive me for waffling on.

Js
 
thanks for the reply Jas, you didnt waffle on in the slightest, it made for very interesting reading.
and i agree, that marking tools are an essential part, with those accuracy will always follow on, currently i do not own a marking guage,
and that is high on the list, i read in one of the wood working publications,
about a Stanley 98 marking guage, i have been on the look out for a while
it seems a very versatile guage!
i use a moore and wright combination square, and engineers square for everything that needs it, having my dad work as a pattern maker,
he has always insisted on the best of marking out tools
i have looked at the two cherries chisels, and they do look like a very nice set of chisels, but the only thing that concerns me is the lack of other sizes, and that you can only buy them in a set,
the AI chisels look very very nice indeed, but reading that some of the backs were as far as 0.5mm out does make me cautious
i have been on the look out on ebay for a while now for saws,
but i have only seen disston panel saws etc, when really im after tenon and dovetail models, does anyone here use gents saws razer saws etc ?
 
Mat
Two cherries Chisels were/are available singuly from Axinster Power Tools, as well as in sets.

Bean
 
I've been using gents saws steadily for a few months now, my liking for them growing with every cut. Like everything else, they take a little getting used to, but their learning curve isn't too high... One of these days I might get around to trying them on a dovetail.... if that Cornish Pixie's hex ever wears off that is...
:p
 
Matt,

the Two Cherries set does differ from the ones bought singly: essentially, the handles of the ones in the set shorten in proportion to the width of the blade. In contrast, the single ones all have the same sized handle, I think. No difference in the type of steel or finish of the handles. I have the set, but intend to add to it from the single range: in particular, I ought to get a 4mm for small dovetails, which, by the sound of it, you might also need.

By the way, the Two Cherries range also includes some rather tasty-looking mortice chisels, which I have seen on my visits to Axminster's shop in Faversham. I haven't used them, though, so I don't know how well they stand up to being thumped or used to pry up the bits from the mortice floor.

Incidentally, Disston made a variety of backsaws, and I have two, one of which was bought from ebay. The previous owner had filed it rip, albeit with too much set. Once some of the set was removed by a swipe on both sides with an oilstone, it turned into a very useful tenon saw, even dovetail saw. You might want to have a look at http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/, which has a detailed survey of the different saws that Disston made. http://www.vintagesaws.com/ is also worth a look, and has useful sections on saw restoration and sharpening.
Of course, if money is no object, just splurge on L-N or Adria.

Oh, yes, another thing: if dovetails are your aim, but you haven't quite cracked them yet, Rob Cosman's video, imaginatively entitled Hand-Cut Dovetails, is rather good, and is available from Axminster.

Hope this helps.
JS
 
Midnight":1qfkxfgo said:
if that Cornish Pixie's hex ever wears off that is...
:p
Just because I wasn't here when you wrote that, doesn't mean I'm not reading it now...
tounge.gif


Disston backsaws aren't the only ones worth having, you know. It's a bit like people not buying Millers Falls planes 'cos everyone always goes on about Stanley. Lots and lots of good British made saws to be had out there.

Cheers, Alf
 
would you care to name a few names to look out for alf?
with second hand saws, is there anything in particular to look out for?obviously the general condition and cleanliness will tell a great deal
also could you explain the difference in set between an X-cut saw, and rip?
 
Not Alf- but look for Tyzak Non-Pareil they are great saws. There is an Ebay seller called Keith who does great saws (he sharpens the saws he sells too - won't do sharpening as a general activity unfortunately).

I got a lovely 1870 14" cross-cut tenon saw from him that he had sharpened and it's beautiful.
 
My mind's gone as blank as a blank thing. I'll have to look and see what I've got in the workshop tomorrow. From memory I've had good saws from various Tyzacks, old Robert Sorby's and a John Cockerill I sold and have regretted ever since. Everyone and his missus seems to have had "their own" saw on the market, but I suspect there was more than a little rebadging going on. Age is more important than name, and condition is arguably more important than anything. Look for brass nuts, preferably "split nuts", and handles where you can't see any flats. That tends to indicate older, and therefore probably nicer saws. Genuine condition is virtually impossible to judge on Ebay. So-and-sos with wire brushes can get away with murder in a bad piccy.
ermmm.gif
We need to get BB to put up a pic of the saw he brought for "show and tell" to the Tools'04 yesterday to demonstrate what a well restored saw should look like. I saw a couple at Topsham Antiques Maul that would make a lovely demonstration of what to run away from. Such a shame, 'cos one was -guess what- a John Cockerill.
annoyed.gif


X-cut and rip are probably best explained on somewhere like Vintage Saws in their sharpening primer in the "Library section" (IIRC). The well-equipped galoot will favour at least one each of 8, 10, 12 and 14" in both x-cut and rip, which is why we get so darn good at a) Buying them and b) Sharpening them.
blush2.gif
. Apparently there's no known cure...

Cheers, Alf
 
which of those sizes mentioned is most versatile?
do you have a size you tend to use before others?
also, is it wise to have both a X-cut and rip toothed saws?
 
MattMoore":1lgm6s7y said:
which of those sizes mentioned is most versatile?
14" seems to be the most popular, but personally I like 12" as a nice compromise.

MattMoore":1lgm6s7y said:
do you have a size you tend to use before others?
Whichever one is handiest. Not helpful, but true.

MattMoore":1lgm6s7y said:
also, is it wise to have both a X-cut and rip toothed saws?
Yes. Unless you expect to never do any x-cuts, or never any rip cuts, which is unlikely. You can manage with just x-cut, but I wouldn't call it wise.

Cheers, Alf
 
Back
Top