piece of wood gets convex while planing, how to solve?

[bugbear]

After a little thinking I decided to check the sole. Bingo! The sole
is convex in the width(both the no4 and 6), so it's rocking on the wood.
Flattening the sole with sandpaper has caused this.

I did advise you not to use that technique.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

After a little thinking I decided to check the sole. Bingo! The sole
is convex in the width(both the no4 and 6), so it's rocking on the wood.
Flattening the sole with sandpaper has caused this.

I did advise you not to use that technique.

BugBear

It occurred to me that if Ali has a convex sole (across the width) and a straight blade edge he is in unknown territory as far as I am concerned, but it certainly sounds problematic!
Simplest solution would be to camber the blade to match the sole - or a bit more so that it cuts more in the middle.
I'd do that Ali, rather than carrying on wrecking another plane!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Before doing anything more to the plane, try this.

Don't try taking twenty or thirty shavings off a workpiece in one go - if there are any errors in flatness, you'll probably make them much worse before you realise. The only times you'd plane like that are to bring a rough-sawn surface down to first-approximation smooth and sawmark-free, or when you'd marked off the finished width of a piece, and had about a quarter of an inch (6mm) or so to hog off - and even then, it pays to check on progress quite frequently.

Put the workpiece back in the vice, and take one clean-up shaving. That's all - just one.

Now check the workpiece along it's length with a straightedge, and across it's width with a short straight edge - 6" rule or similar. If you're working an edge, check squareness to the face with a try-square in several places along it's length. Either make a mental note of where the highest spots are, or mark them with a pencil or chalk. Don't worry about the low spots, or even the 'middling' ones at the moment.

Now put the job back in the vice, and with the plane, take one or two shavings off the marked high spots. Don't bother with full-length shavings, just attack the high spots, and just one or two shavings.

Now check again, and note or mark where the high spots are now. Back to the vice, and take one or two shavings off those.

You'll soon get to know how many shavings it takes to bring down different heights of high spot - it'll be fewer than you think.

When things are about level all over, take one full-length shaving. Check again. If there are high-ish spots, take one shaving off them. Then check again. Finish with one full-length shaving.

The real key to planing flat is to check constantly, and only attack the high spots. It sound like a prolonged operation, but with not much practice, it becomes very slick.

You may even find that a slightly (emphasis - slightly) convex-in-width soled plane makes it easier to track the plane through the high spots; a lot of planing speed is about getting used to the particular characteristics of YOUR plane.

Good luck - and just keep checking!

 

[Tony Spear]

Just out of interest Ali, assuming you're right handed, what is your left hand doing?

 

[Tony Spear]

Just out of interest Ali, assuming you're right handed, what is your left hand doing?

Reason I ask is that I was taught by my Grandfather that when planing the edges of a board, instead of holding the front knob, to wrap my thumb over the edge of the plane and then use my index and 2nd. finger under the sole and pressed aginst the of the face of the board as a sort of "fence" to stop the plane rocking.

In fact (and don't tell Jacob about this :wink: ) I believe that LV make (or made) an accessory consisting of a bit of steel plate with a couple of rare earth magnets so you could stick it on the side of a plane to do exactly the same job! :roll:

 

[Jacob]

Just out of interest Ali, assuming you're right handed, what is your left hand doing?

Reason I ask is that I was taught by my Grandfather that when planing the edges of a board, instead of holding the front knob, to wrap my thumb over the edge of the plane and then use my index and 2nd. finger under the sole and pressed aginst the of the face of the board as a sort of "fence" to stop the plane rocking.

Very traditional - normal in fact

In fact (and don't tell Jacob about this :wink: ) I believe that LV make (or made) an accessory consisting of a bit of steel plate with a couple of rare earth magnets so you could stick it on the side of a plane to do exactly the same job! :roll:

:lol:
Brilliant. Liberates the thumb and two fingers to perform other useful tasks simultaneously! Can't think what though. Any suggestions?

 

[bugbear]

In fact (and don't tell Jacob about this :wink: ) I believe that LV make (or made) an accessory consisting of a bit of steel plate with a couple of rare earth magnets so you could stick it on the side of a plane to do exactly the same job! :roll:

It's a classic Stanley idea, only Lee Valley (being ever-so-slightly fixated) added magnets.

http://www.antiquetools.com/mini-col/st ... index.html

BugBear

 

[Tony Spear]

Just out of interest Ali, assuming you're right handed, what is your left hand doing?

Reason I ask is that I was taught by my Grandfather that when planing the edges of a board, instead of holding the front knob, to wrap my thumb over the edge of the plane and then use my index and 2nd. finger under the sole and pressed aginst the of the face of the board as a sort of "fence" to stop the plane rocking.

Very traditional - normal in fact

In fact (and don't tell Jacob about this :wink: ) I believe that LV make (or made) an accessory consisting of a bit of steel plate with a couple of rare earth magnets so you could stick it on the side of a plane to do exactly the same job! :roll:

:lol:
Brilliant. Liberates the thumb and two fingers to perform other useful tasks simultaneously! Can't think what though. Any suggestions?

That assumes you've got all the other fingers! :shock:

 

[graween]

Hi,

These guides IMHO are more done to keep the right angle on the edge, when planing.
But you still have to maintain at least a light pressure on the plane on its front, or you'll end up with a nice angle on the width, but probably something not really flat on the length

With the stanley one, you can set up a lot of different angles. Which is probably a cool feature to build up angles on edges, for example making coopered panels. Probably the only usage, as you don't need one of these gadgets to make a right angle.

Now for what to do with your free hand if you can plane with only one hand ... you can surf and read threads on your computer on the forum :mrgreen:

Regards.

 

[Tony Spear]

Hi,

These guides IMHO are more done to keep the right angle on the edge, when planing.
But you still have to maintain at least a light pressure on the plane on its front, or you'll end up with a nice angle on the width, but probably something not really flat on the length

With the stanley one, you can set up a lot of different angles. Which is probably a cool feature to build up angles on edges, for example making coopered panels. Probably the only usage, as you don't need one of these gadgets to make a right angle.

Now for what to do with your free hand if you can plane with only one hand ... you can surf and read threads on your computer on the forum :mrgreen:

Regards.

I wasn't suggesting one handed planing! :shock:

If you read my post again, I was talking about wrapping the left thumb over the side of the plane (obviously adjacent to the knob) and using the fingers of the left hand to stop the plane from rocking, which one possible reason for getting a convex edge on the board, which is where this thread started! BTW, the thinner the board, the more difficult it is to keep the plane stable.

And LV obviously think that some people DO need help planing a right angle, as that's the only possible use for their gadget 'cos it definitely ain't adjustable!

 

[Tony Spear]

After a little thinking I decided to check the sole. Bingo! The sole
is convex in the width(both the no4 and 6), so it's rocking on the wood.

BugBear

It occurred to me that if Ali has a convex sole (across the width) and a straight blade edge he is in unknown territory as far as I am concerned, but it certainly sounds problematic!
Simplest solution would be to camber the blade to match the sole - or a bit more so that it cuts more in the middle.
I'd do that Ali, rather than carrying on wrecking another plane!

A good point Jacob, but perhaps badly made? To match the sole, you'd need to find a way to put on a "reverse" i.e. concave camber on the blade. However, as you say, a conventional i.e. convex camber would definitely make it cut deeper in the middle, thus counteracting the convexity of the sole. BUT a markedly convex sole is always going to have a tendency to rock.

I hope that I've got that right! :?

 

[Jacob]

....

A good point Jacob, but perhaps badly made? To match the sole, you'd need to find a way to put on a "reverse" i.e. concave camber on the blade. However, as you say, a conventional i.e. convex camber would definitely make it cut deeper in the middle, thus counteracting the convexity of the sole.

???
Convex blade to match convex sole IMHO, but with blade more convex than the sole so it'd cut in the middle

BUT a markedly convex sole is always going to have a tendency to rock.

Not if the blade is convex too - it'll cut a neat concave channel to fit the sole. In theory perhaps. But too much theory is not good - with enough practice you don't need theory at all, and Ali's problems seem to be due to too much theorising ( and all that sharpening and plane fettling :roll: !

I hope that I've got that right! :?

Not as I read it!

 

[Tony Spear]

....
I hope that I've got that right! :?

Not as I read it!

[/quote]

I realised after I'd written it that I'd probably got it arse backards, which is why I put that bit in!

But anyway, even if you do camber the blade to match a convex sole, surely there's still going to be a tendency for the plane to rock? :?

 

[Jacob]

...
But anyway, even if you do camber the blade to match a convex sole, surely there's still going to be a tendency for the plane to rock? :?

Surely any plane (or any other tool for that matter) placed on any surface is going to "rock" unless the profile of the surface and the tool happen to match exactly, which is rarely going to be the case, and in any case will change as soon as you remove a bit of shaving.
This "rock" idea is a complete red herring!
Except of course - to control the cut of a plane you do have to "rock" it a bit i.e. vary pressure.

PS and of course - the most perfect plane in the world is going to "rock" if you put it on an uneven surface in need of planing,

PPS "piece of wood gets convex while planing, how to solve?" is the exasperating title of this thread - the solution being "stop planing the piece of wood convex, do it flat instead" but I just don't know how to get across this simple message! :roll:

 

[bugbear]

PPS "piece of wood gets convex while planing, how to solve?" is the exasperating title of this thread - the solution being "stop planing the piece of wood convex, do it flat instead" but I just don't know how to get across this simple message! :roll:

How to juggle: throw balls in the air without dropping them. Simple.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

PPS "piece of wood gets convex while planing, how to solve?" is the exasperating title of this thread - the solution being "stop planing the piece of wood convex, do it flat instead" but I just don't know how to get across this simple message! :roll:

How to juggle: throw balls in the air without dropping them. Simple.

BugBear

Exactly.
How do you teach someone to juggle balls? You tell them to practice. That's how everybody learns, and anybody can do it - eventually.
Actually, just like planing, there are little useful tips which a performer can pass on, which may speed up the learning process very slightly, but you will get there without them if you practice a lot and keep looking at and thinking about what you are doing.

I think Ali is struggling with an excess of information - he's been sent off on a wild goose chase with hundreds of hours of crazy sharpening and excessive plane fettling - but still can't plane a piece of wood!!!
Don't worry Ali you will get there in the end!

PS I bet he's spent quite a lot too. Big waste of time and money.

PPS for BB http://learnhowtojuggle.info/ note "practice and persistence is the key"

 

[graween]

Hi.
Tony

I wasn't suggesting one handed planing! :shock:

I read your post right, but extrapolated to add some fun

Cheers

 

[Jacob]

PPS "piece of wood gets convex while planing, how to solve?" is the exasperating title of this thread - the solution being "stop planing the piece of wood convex, do it flat instead" but I just don't know how to get across this simple message! :roll:

How to juggle: throw balls in the air without dropping them. Simple.

BugBear

Exactly.
How do you teach someone to juggle balls? You tell them to practice. That's how everybody learns, and anybody can do it - eventually.
Actually, just like planing, there are little useful tips which a performer can pass on, which may speed up the learning process very slightly, but you will get there without them if you practice a lot and keep looking at and thinking about what you are doing.

I think Ali is struggling with an excess of information - he's been sent off on a wild goose chase with hundreds of hours of crazy sharpening and excessive plane fettling - but still can't plane a piece of wood!!!
Don't worry Ali you will get there in the end!

PS I bet he's spent quite a lot too. Big waste of time and money.

PPS for BB http://learnhowtojuggle.info/ note "practice and persistence is the key"

I could have over simplified the juggling isssue I suppose. Maybe a few aids could help such as these , and a few dvds, books, courses wouldn't go amiss. And maybe you should polish yer balls and check their weight and diameter. Sphericality could be an issue. And of course you must keep them in a sock - proper purpose made expensive sock, not just any old sock. And apply Camellia oil at regular intervals.
Hmm. Think on. It's not as easy as it looks! http://www.juggling.org/papers/science-1/

Then ther's this http://io9.com/5806648/terrifying-juggl ... ls-at-once
the more you look at it the more difficult it is - as Ali has found out with sharpening and planing! I'm sure he'll get there in the end.