Perfect Workshop Layout - Myth?

[wizer]

I'm actually quite happy with my current layout. I've not felt the need to move anything around for a good 6-7 months. But it's not perfect. The big problem is dust extraction. With the layout as it is, the chip collector is in completely the wrong place. There are a couple of other things I would like, but I'm not sure are ever going to work. To begin with, I'd really like a proper built in table for the mitre saw. I considered getting rid of it, but I use it so much that it would be stupid to get rid. As we all know, these things take up so much depth. If pockets where deep a Kapex would be a definite. There is a Hitachi model with front sliding bars, but that's still very expensive and my bosch 10" is a good saw. Selling it would loose to much, just for front sliding bars. The other thing I'd like is to have the TS on the right hand side of the workshop, like I see so many other have done in small workshops.

Here is how it looks right now:

I haven't yet built the unit for the TS to sit in, but this is how it will look. Al machines are in their 'parked' position and most get rolled out for use. Above the TS is my grinder on a shelf. I use this a lot for sharpening my turning tools. The TS passes under it to 'park'. The SCMS is just on an MDF box with castors. No side supports. The stripy thing by the door is a large double front filing cabinet that is really useful, has all my hand power tools, finishes, decorating junk and sharpening paraphernalia.

As I say it's working at the moment, but it's just not as perfect as I'd like. So tonight I mucked about with sketchup to try some ideas out. I'm pretty certain I've wasted my time, but I thought I'd chuck it out there to get some opinions (I think I've noticed a few of those on here).

The construction of the SCMS area is just a quick sketch to give an idea of what I'm thinking. The P/T would slide under it and be wheeled out when needed. I think this is the major flaw in this design. Getting the P/T out to use would mean sliding it right out into the middle of the room. Even then, I'd be limited on outfeed space, so the bandsaw would also need to be wheeled out.

Any thoughts? How would you improve on either of these layouts?

 

[2tone]

i think its a definite improvement, you need as much bench space as you can get.... sitting linishers, drill presses, grinders in 1 fixed location is the way forward. What i done in a previous workshop was very similar to this except that half of the new wall mounted benches were on a folding cantilever so i could reclaim the space easily as and when required.

 

[woodsworth]

I think it is an improvement as well. It is difficult to build something in because as soon as you do it is some investment in real estate. It changes the foot print of the shop. That said combining the drill press and the miter saw along the wall where the door is will let you cut long stuff when you need to give you a flat surface to work at or lay out long pieces. You could build it a bit higher then your movable worktable and park it under it as well as your table saw. giving you a higher work surface and a way to open up the shop when you need the room to assemble big projects.

What do you have a chip extractor for?

 

[Recky33]

Is your work bench under a window ? if not you could put your chip extractor and band saw on that wall, last thing you need is having to carry a bag full of dust across the workshop, how big is your space ?

Allan

 

[OPJ]

Don't worry, you haven't wasted your time - it does look like a definite improvement! 8)

How often do you honestly use your P/T? Once you've prepared your timber at the start of a project, do you honestly need to use it again before you start the next one? My point is, you can probably live with it 'hidden' for most of the time. Your second drawing has created a lot of space for working and assembling things. It would be a shame to lose much of that because of one machine.

I like Recky's idea of mounting the extractor on the wall, somehow. Or, you could do what I did (depending on the height of your ceiling?) and mount it on a plywood box with wheels - another space to store power tools and it makes bag-changing more comfortable for your back. :wink:

Regarding that Hitachi saw, I read some negative reviews of it on Amazon.com a while ago and, coupled with the fact that it's a 12in. saw (the bigger they are... etc.), it put me right off. If Mr.Finlay ever gets back to you about the Domino, you're welcome to "snipe" me to the Kapex (I'm going to save some money and get a second-hand Makita LS1013 for now, as I'm also buying a big bandsaw).

Another I'm proposing with my 'shop is to store sheet materials horizontally - that way, the space required behind for the rails is no longer "wasted"! :wink:

 

[wizer]

I see what your saying but the 'new' layout was bugging me. Whilst I understand that normal procedure is to prepare stock at the start of the project and then put the machine away. I don't tend to do that. It tends to get used often.

Last night (or rather this morning), I went back to the current config and made a couple of tweaks which I think is better.

To start with, I turned the TS around. I'm really not sure why I haven't done this before ? It seems like a good idea to me. It does mean that to use the RT I have to roll the whole unit right out, but I can live with that.

The main addition is another workbench at right angles to the current one that will give a home to the mitresaw. This solves the issue of wanting is in a fixed location with an extended fence, plus give me a little more bench space.

The chip colector gets moved to the oppostie wall and in this position can serve the P/T better than it does at the moment. I tend to use the chip collector for the P/T exclusively at the moment, so it makes sense to have it next to it. The RSDE2 will get mounted on the wall in this location with my intended wheelie bin mod. This will then be ducted out to the lathe, TS crown guard, work bench and maybe the SCMS.

The bandsaw remains roughly in it's current location and the chip collector should pick it's dust collection.

The only messy part will be the dust extraction for below the TS which will have to be a flext pipe that gets attached every time I want to use it. I'm doing that for every machine at the moment, so I'm used to it.

I want to re-arrange all my wall shelving also because they are a mess at present and also need to keep on top of my scraps storage.

Sorry for rambling, but it helps to get my thoughts down for me to read back.

This seems like a good plan to me. But I'm open to suggestions as usual.

 

[wizer]

BTW. What you can't see in the pic is that the nearest wall that the drill press and bandsaw are against, has the roller door out to the drive. This will be changed to a single opening door as discussed previously.

 

[head clansman]

hi tom

the second layout is the best IMO the only changes i would make is make one end of the bench a little wider in depth and build in the router doing away with the portable router station , then you have a straight run of piping for ducting which i would build in under the the worktop to router chopsaw and drill station, and a second run at a right angle to the band saw and the lathe and then do away with what look like a portable hoover ,clearing space all along the right hand wall . hc

 

[OPJ]

I can't see a lot wrong with your latest one, Tom.

The table saw's in a good position, you'll still have to slide the planer out for machining longer lengths but, I guess you wouldn't be doing that often. I might suggest swapping your SCMS with the lathe unless you're someone who actually keeps their workbench clear... But, that would probably affect the overall 'flow'.

Do you already have loads of wall sockets to accommodate this or would you be using extension leads?

 

[Blister]

Have you changed you BRM to a BGM :lol:

 

[OLD]

My way to make a shop layout flexible is to site pillar drill near door or window to deal with long stuff lathe in corner ( not much space required on three sides)benches where you want them.All the other machines of any size are fitted with castors you then move them into a suitable space to preform the nexst operation a couple of connection points for extraction with longish hose works with this also.

 

[wizer]

I might suggest swapping your SCMS with the lathe

**snip**

Do you already have loads of wall sockets to accommodate this or would you be using extension leads?

That's not a bad idea, but I'm not sure if I want the lathe over by the work bench. No matter how much you clear up around a lathe, it's always going to be messy

hmm :-k

Have you changed you BRM to a BGM :lol:

Changed it for you

 

[OPJ]

...Now, I'm thinking you should switch your lathe and workbench around! :roll:

I used to work with my old 'bench along the shorter walls and I could never use it properly. If I wanted to plane something in the vice, I would end up backing in to my pillar drill at the start of the cut and following through in to my bobbin sander! Very frustrating! :x I can't see it being any easier with a wall to your right.

Or, maybe, put the lathe where it was before and put the chop saw by the door?? :roll:

I know the Yanks say that a table saw should be the heart of your workshop - well, I believe it should be the workbench!

...Seriously, where is all the household junk in these drawings??? :shock:

 

[wizer]

...Now, I'm thinking you should switch your lathe and workbench around! :roll:

Yes your head starts to spin when you think about it too much. Oh for some more space!

...Seriously, where is all the household junk in these drawings??? :shock:

Not in my workshop Olly! There's plenty of junk, but it's my junk. I sometimes am greeted by dumped 'presents', they soon find their way back into the house

 

[Matt_S]

Going on from Ollys comment about the bench on a long wall. Could you put it on the same wall as the proposed SCMS stand. You could have one long bench have a fence for drill and SCMS could have a space at your favoured end of the bench.

 

[wizer]

You may well be on to something there Matt! I started thinking along those lines earlier, before I was dragged around the Supermarket! :roll:

I looks really good to me. The filing cabinet looks like it's going to be in the way and I might have to move it out into the garden shed and find homes for the stuff that's in it. Shouldn't be too difficult if I think it through. The walls are currently jam packed with shelving which all needs sorting out.

I need to triple check all my measurements because the amount of floor space left available look wrong to me. As Olly said earlier, without all the junk strewn everywhere it looks like there is ample room, but I'm sure in reality it will still be as cramped.

This layout still gives me good positioning for ducting. The RSDE2 can still be mounted on the wall above a wheelie bin and have duct going right along the back wall dropping down to the bench, TS guard, SCMS and finishing at the lathe. I think I'll swap the drill press and the bandsaw over to better position them for DE. The bandsaw will also be positioned in front of the door so that long stuff can be fed through the door in summer.

Hmm, I really like it. What do you think??

 

[ondablade]

Some thoughts from my own fiddling with paper cut outs Wiz.

The need for infeed and outfeed clearance for whatever length of timber you feel you need to work is a very big factor in determining where you can put stuff.

The doors can help in this at a push, my drill press has ended up like this as i just can't find another piece of all along which to place it that would allow a long piece on the table.

Clearance for 8X4 boards (which may be angled up to 45deg) against a 2500mm cross cut fence (in this case on a panel saw) is also a big issue.

It's almost the case that your floor space requirement is set not by the size of your machines, but by the size and length, width and height of the workpieces you need to handle.

Wheels are a last resort, as moving stuff all the time isn't to my mind ideal if it can be avoided.

Two possible ways of improving this. One is to place bench and machine tables at differing heights so that stuff can pass under or over. I didn't in the end use this though as i couldn't figure out an arrangement i was confident would not run into trouble.

The other i did use was to move away from square machine alignments. If you can put e.g. a P/T and a spindle moulder parallel to and one just in front (not overlapping) the other, and at say 20 deg to the line of a wall it's surprising how you can align smallish clear areas/gaps between machines etc for the infeed and outfeed.

Set up a layout you can play with and it'll become clear very quickly if this helps.

Another move that helped me a lot was to place the cyclone, fan and filters outside of the shop, and to run the suction duct through a hole in the wall. (i've appropriated an adjacent store room for the dust system and an engineering/sharpening area, but it could go outside.

Probably daft, but could a craftily built hole in the wall accommodate the sliding rails on your chop saw? I thought of doing this for the T bar on an Incra rip fence, but found another solution.

It's not built yet, but the plan is to have my wheeled router table/cabinet double as an assembly table and maybe an outfeed table by making a drop on/lift off top. The cabinet can be pushed under the stairs to the loft and the lift off top hung on the wall if more floor space is needed for a job.

My sheet storage will place 8X4s on end to save floor space, and allow it to go just inside the double doors.

Most of the timber storage is upstairs, but anything in the shop will be on racks above head height.

Clamps will go on wall racks too, as while a mobile stand is a nice idea it ties up too much floor space for my layout.

ian

 

[wizer]

Thanks for you thoughts Ian, it's always useful to get other people ideas.

It's hard to say how much work with full sheets I'll be doing. Not much I'd say. The main problem with working with large sheet materials is their weight. I just can't handle them on my own. Also storing full sheets in my workshop is never going to happen. So if\when I do use sheet materials then I'll either have to pay extra to have them dimensioned to rough size or plan their delivery on a day where I can be ready with my saw and rails to knock them down straight away. This can be done on my drive or if it's raining, then I think I should be able to just get one sheet on the floor inside the workshop with some juggling. It won't something I'll be doing more than once a year I should think.

At the moment it's looking like I'll be working on small items for the foreseeable future, so my in\outfeeds are looking good. Certainly not had any problems in the past few months and that aspect of the workshop is not changing much. As I say, in the summer the door can be opened to outfeed from the bandsaw and in the winter I can juggle stuff about a bit and drag it back into the middle of the floor space.

I agree that moving machines around is not ideal and I've tried to get everything in a near permenant position. But needs must. The P/T will roll in and out in one direction and the same with the TS.

Nice idea about having the SCMS bars pass through the wall, but there's a neighbour on that side, can't see it being viable. What I did think would be a good idea is to have the SCMS on some sort of sliding tray. This would pull out and lock into position when needed and then push back when not. Not put any thought into it's construction yet, but it would need to be heavy duty.

I've thought a lot about having the extractors outside. The problem at the moment is that the only wall where that would be possible opens onto my front drive. Currently there is a roller door there, but I intend to change this to a smaller opening, so it's possible. But not something I'm going to consider this year.

Having in\outfeed pass under or over other machines' is another good idea. I need to look into this, but I think my work will be too small to make this an important one for me.

The rolling cabinet that I have designed for the TS and RT will have a flip up out feed table. This will also be used for assembly and I will probably make either a folding table to match the height of this cabinet or some sort of saw horse arrangement. Again, my work will be small, so large amounts of assembly areas are probably not needed.

Currently I have timber stored all around the house. Last summer I built a shed to house just the timber that was stored in the workshop. I've got three large piles on the drive plus another summer house in the garden PLUS lots in the loft and spare room. I have a wood hoarding problem. I just can't resist the stuff!!

 

[OPJ]

Tom. which way does that interior door open? I look at this now and fear that your table saw setup will get in your way when you're using either your workbench or SCMS station! :roll:

I was going to suggest swapping the saw with the filing cabinet but, that looks like it is taller than both benches.

Don't worry, I'm sure this thread will still be going a couple of weeks from now and that we'll soon surpass the eleven or twelve pages at which your TS-200 thread peaked!!

 

[wizer]

The internal door opens out against the back wall. The bench that goes there would have to be built so that the door has clearance.

I don't think that the TS will be in the way of the SCMS station. But the position of the saw it self can be moved up a bit if it is.

As I've drawn it, the TS slides under the top of both benches in the gap between the two. This is the 'parked' position. I would wheel it out about 500mm where it will meet the down feed for the crown guard and DE.

The RT will be a bit of an issue to use. But I'm considering getting rid of the filing cabinet, so the whole TS unit will be able to slide out further. I will use that area for something, but smaller than the filing cabinet.

As I say, for the time being I'm going to be working on small stuff. I can't see me needing a whole lot more room around the TS than this. The more I think about it, the more I think this layout give everything just enough space. The only machine I might consider upgrading in the nearish future is the bandsaw. But that shouldn't take up hardly any extra floor space and could probably stay in the same place.