Parf Dogs with replacement MFT top

[transatlantic]

I have just purchased a new replacement MFT top from ebay. It's not made by Festool, but by a CNC company. It also came with 6 aluminium dogs.

Now, all the above is fine, and works a treat. The supplied dogs fit very nicely/snuggly into the holes with no play.

But now my Axminster Parf Dogs are very sloppy. The 70mm ones are pretty much unuseable as the slop is magnified due to their length.

So I did some measurements with my digital calipers.

The Aluminium dogs (supplied with the MFT top) are bang on 20mm +/- 0.02mm
The Axminster Parf dogs are 19.90mm +/- 0.02mm

hmmm

so whats up? does anyone have any official Festool dogs and can confirm the size they're supposed to be?

 

[Mark A]

I have the opposite problem with the MDF top I bought from a CNC place near Wrexham. The supplied dogs are a perfect fit, while my Axminster dogs are so tight they need to be hammered out.

 

[Sideways]

I have bought from the seller near Wrexham and was very pleased with the value of the top / ally dog bundle. All top quality and shipped without any damage at all.
I have since bought the parf guide kit from Axminster and the dogs from Wrexham are a perfect fit in the holes bored with this.

Note, if you want to make your top a little more resistant to rain / glue stains, remember to oil or wax the MDF slab BEFORE you drill the holes alternatively 25mm moisture resistant MDF / Medite makes a very decent top.
I fancy a couple of those new long dogs with the locking rings but they're just too rich for my budget :-(

 

[Doug71]

Festool don't make dogs, the holes in the MFT tops were originally only meant for clamping, all the dogs etc are made by other companies.

Think the holes are meant to be 20mm but some say the older MFT tables were slightly different, guess if the holes were only for sticking clamps through the size didn't really matter.

 

[Distinterior]

I'm not looking to be argumentative Doug,....but Festool do make dogs for their MFT.

http://www.powertool-supplies.co.uk/fes ... duct/39353

I have various sets of dogs for my Festool MFT including the set in my link above and an 8 x 4 MFT top that i had made by a local CNC company. I bought a set of the Parf Dogs from Axminster when they were first sold and they were a loose fit in my Festool MFT. I even emailed Peter Parfitt who bought them to market through Axminster, and he said that they were within tolerance...

When I had the 8 x4 top made, I gave the Parf Dogs to the CNC guy and he machined the holes to suit the Parf Dogs, and they are a much tighter fit than in the Festool top.

I haven't found the additional movement in the Parf Dogs a problem in the Festool MFT. You can always fix them from underneath if the movement concerns you.

 

[custard]

does anyone have any official Festool dogs and can confirm the size they're supposed to be?

I'll check tomorrow when I'm back in the workshop, but my recollection is that the Festool MFT holes are 20mm, and all the third party dogs that I have are 19.9mm, which gives a reasonably snug fit but without any binding.

Perhaps your top worked the other way around? Maybe they started with 20mmm dogs, found they were a bit too snug, so machined the holes at 20.1mm? Just a guess.

 

[Doug71]

I'm not looking to be argumentative Doug,....but Festool do make dogs for their MFT.

http://www.powertool-supplies.co.uk/fes ... duct/39353

You got me there.....but I am sure they are not made by Festool, think they are made by Veritas and rebadged.

https://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-sur ... sel=506451

https://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-pla ... sts-506454

My point was really that originally the MFT holes were for clamping and the fence/ guide rail on it was for cutting, I think the Veritas dogs are more for clamping/work holding. All the cutting type dogs are made by other companies so it's all a bit hit and miss whether they fit or not.

I expect Festool hate the whole bench dog cutting table thing, it must be losing them loads of MFT sales.

Doug

 

[Distinterior]

You may well be correct Doug......As those Veritas items look exactly the same as the Festool offerings.

 

[transatlantic]

does anyone have any official Festool dogs and can confirm the size they're supposed to be?

I'll check tomorrow when I'm back in the workshop, but my recollection is that the Festool MFT holes are 20mm, and all the third party dogs that I have are 19.9mm, which gives a reasonably snug fit but without any binding.

Perhaps your top worked the other way around? Maybe they started with 20mmm dogs, found they were a bit too snug, so machined the holes at 20.1mm? Just a guess.

ah, that could be the case. I'll try and measure the holes again.

does anyone have any thoughts on how I could resolve this? I'll need to somehow shim the parf dogs. Perhaps painting them with something to give them a little more thickness? but somthing that isn't going to wear easily.

 

[ScaredyCat]

Perhaps painting them with something to give them a little more thickness? but somthing that isn't going to wear easily.

Blue tape ?

 

[galleywood]

If you have a lathe you could knurl them and then rub them down to get the fit right.

 

[custard]

I checked this morning.

My MFT table is pretty old but this particular top was a Festool replacement from roughly 18 months ago. Using Starrett callipers the holes were 20.00mm.

The dogs come from assorted manufacturers, they were all identical within each manufacturer, but across manufacturers they varied from 19.94 to 19.98mm. The ones with the biggest diameter require some finger pressure to get in and out, the smallest feel like a play free fit but slip in and out easily enough.

Hope that's useful.

 

[transatlantic]

Perhaps painting them with something to give them a little more thickness? but somthing that isn't going to wear easily.

Blue tape ?

Yeah - will give that a try, although I suspect it will be too thick, or simply come off during use.

If you have a lathe you could knurl them and then rub them down to get the fit right.

I wish!

Hope that's useful.

Looks like you have some Parf dogs there? For the small Parf dog, it's not so bad. It's the 70mm one that is the problem.

 

[clanger]

...perhaps painting them with something to give them a little more thickness? but somthing that isn't going to wear easily.

Going back to my old days as a photocopier engineer, we used to use nail varnish, that we would knock back to the right thickness with wire wool. Might be worth a try.

Chris

 

[transatlantic]

Going back to my old days as a photocopier engineer, we used to use nail varnish, that we would knock back to the right thickness with wire wool. Might be worth a try.

Chris

I was thinking the same thing!

 

[Rorschach]

A single layer of sellotape usually works well and is fairly slick and long lasting, it may be a little thick for your needs though.

When fitting arbours to motors I use aluminium foil as a shimming material, works well, especially thicker turkey foil.

 

[memzey]

Would a layer or two of shellac work? Easy to remove if not so perhaps worth a try.

 

[transatlantic]

Just tried the nail varnish. Seems to be working well. A lot of it came off, but I think that was where it was rubbing as it's hard to get on thin.

 

[porker]

I have a top I made from the jig that is sold by the guys in Wrexham. They supply some very thin aluminium tape to wrap around the router guide bush if you need to make the holes a little tighter (You make a test hole in a piece of scrap to test the fit). If too loose a wrap of the aluminium tape makes the holes slightly smaller. I found the Erbauer and Hitachi guide bushes were fractionally different.

This might work round the dogs but not sure how long it would last. The knurling idea would work but really needs a lathe to put them on.

 

[transatlantic]

The knurling idea would work but really needs a lathe to put them on.

wouldn't that be like filing the MDF hole each time you insert it?