Pants on Fire!

[Terry - Somerset]

Data is implicit within the world view. Interconnectedness is everywhere and in everything.

It is no great secret that Tufton Street are engaged in disinformation and misinformation ploys, at the behest of Big Fossil Fuel. It is no secret that Tufton Street is right wing/extreme right wing. It is no secret that Big Business and right wing are very close bed fellows ( =data about business and businessman donations to the right wing of politics are easy to trawl - and conspicuous in their rarity/absence to the left.) It's no secret that the talking points of Daily Mail, Telegraph, GBeebies, TalkCarp, et al read from the same party memos.

World views about disinformation stories - such as "Green energy is more expensive" (now a proven lie); "renewables will harm economy" and "least well off will suffer most" (intentional lies); "climate change is not real" or "global warming is a hoax" or "global warming is not man made" or "there's nothing we can do to combat global warming" etc, etc, etc - those world views are almost exclusively right wing tropes.

World views about "saving the environment", or investing in renewables or anything else that is opposite of the list above exist almost exclusively to the left. We know all this to be true, since we can see the world views play out from each individual and we know what each individual favours as an ideology. Feel free to research all of my posts on this forum and you shall see a pattern. Likewise, have a look at members who never miss an opportunity to criticise or display their fundamental hatred of Starmer or all things "woke" or left wing, and then match that person to their world views about global warming/renewables/zero emissions mandates/EVs and you will also see a very, VERY distinct pattern emerging.

Hence the proposition that: the Venn Diagram of "ANTI-EV" (not just "EVs are not workable around my circumstances, but may suit yours") and right-wing world view is almost a circle.

How about you, mate, whats your view and where do you sit on the world view spectrum? I don't want you particularly to write your answer on here - just that self scrutiny is a valuable commodity that ought to be harnessed more often by more people.

This seems at like unsubstantiated garbage.

It is entirely possible for someone right of centre to be supportive of green energy, the NHS, immigration, decent education, social fairness etc. I would include myself in that group.

Characterising opinions on topics which have little or no political relevance as solely left or right evidences an arrogance that ones own views form a consistent body of "truth". Nonsense.

 

[John Brown]

This seems at like unsubstantiated garbage.

It is entirely possible for someone right of centre to be supportive of green energy, the NHS, immigration, decent education, social fairness etc. I would include myself in that group.

Characterising opinions on topics which have little or no political relevance as solely left or right evidences an arrogance that ones own views form a consistent body of "truth". Nonsense.

Of course it's possible, but I have to say that I agree with HC,bin a generalizing way. It does definitely seem that there is an overlap of right wing views with disparagement of EVs and green energy and mild xenophobia.
The fact that you include yourself in the non-overlapping parts of the Venn diagram is irrelevant.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Happy to provide answers

Consider myself right of center, I’m in the higher income bracket, certainly more capitalist than socialist, support the benefits system, believe that immigration is a good thing and love the NHS. I do strongly believe in man made climate change, think green energy is the dogs danglies, also support nuclear power, I think EV’s are the future. We have a hybrid with 80mph battery and run it largely as an EV.

If you want to continue basing you world view on the content of media, that is only interested in monetisation of information and biases that for maximum return, then of course you’ll continue to pigeon hole people based on the prejudices that they are forcing on you. I for one have no interest in the juvenile left right spats that are the inevitable outcome of far too many threads. Both left and right are as blinkered and indoctrinated as each other. It’s like being in a school play ground. Even worse when some are playing the game to try to make themselves out to be holier than thou.

Good stuff.
Basically you're self claimed "right of centre" puts you "left of the Mail etc al".

Not really fair of you to say that it's "me" who pigeon holes people. The people in question, including me and you, are just pigeon holing ourselves. As are others. It is just easy for others to "observe" that self-pigeon-holing. You can't really be serious in telling me that you haven't observed/detected the same thing. Can you?

 

[paulrbarnard]

Good stuff.
Basically you're self claimed "right of centre" puts you "left of the Mail etc al".

Not really fair of you to say that it's "me" who pigeon holes people. The people in question, including me and you, are just pigeon holing ourselves. As are others. It is just easy for others to "observe" that self-pigeon-holing. You can't really be serious in telling me that you haven't observed/detected the same thing. Can you?

You’re the one attributing other people with ‘anti climate, anti EV, … = right wing’. All part of building a narrative of left good right bad. The reality is both left and right are bad at the extremes.

My original point was that there are anti’s in all political leanings and the constant refrain of “xxx so he’s a right wing extremism” reflects a very shallow perspective largely driven by the popular press and internet echo chambers. Looking at EV there are interesting analysis on EV and political leaning with some telling contradictions between opinion polls and sales data.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

This seems at like unsubstantiated garbage.

It is entirely possible for someone right of centre to be supportive of green energy, the NHS, immigration, decent education, social fairness etc. I would include myself in that group.

Characterising opinions on topics which have little or no political relevance as solely left or right evidences an arrogance that ones own views form a consistent body of "truth". Nonsense.

Just look around and believe the evidence of your own eyes.
I didn't say that being "right of centre" means "anti-EV", for instance. It's the other way around. People who are clearly displaying an "anti-EV" sentiment plus all the other things mentioned (including never missing an opportunity to voice extreme negative opinions on the current government), you know, the full repertoire and gambit of Daily Mail "Pants on Fire" material. (Or Telegraph, GBN, take your pick).

Interestingly, The Sun is finally, at last, being taken to court for their "reporting".

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

You’re the one attributing other people with ‘anti climate, anti EV, … = right wing’. All part of building a narrative of left good right bad. The reality is both left and right are bad at the extremes.

My original point was that there are anti’s in all political leanings and the constant refrain of “xxx so he’s a right wing extremism” reflects a very shallow perspective largely driven by the popular press and internet echo chambers. Looking at EV there are interesting analysis on EV and political leaning with some telling contradictions between opinion polls and sales data.

That's not what I was expressing. That's a straw man.

Subject of thread - Daily Mail perpetuating an anti EV world view. Being forced to issue corrections for telling deliberate lies. Uncovered that it was intentional to precipitate anti-EV sentiment. Deliberate agenda.
The point I'm making is that much of the intentional extreme right wing views that are precipitated by the Daily Mail (Simply witness their day to day headlines) are often parroted by individuals. These are easy to detect. Self pigeon holed. And Daily Mail is not alone.

Those parrots - that is the Venn Diagram I'm referring to. Large overlap/correlation of all of the single topics listed earlier.

 

[paulrbarnard]

That's not what I was expressing. That's a straw man

My original reply was to Dabop’s comment or perhaps you missed that.

Because it panders to the rightwing antiEV/antigreen/anti everything people

 

[Dabop]

My original reply was to Dabop’s comment or perhaps you missed that.

Keep knocking down those strawmen...

I did NOT say all rightwingers are anti EV/antigreen/anti renewables/anti climate change...

But almost all the 'anti's' ARE rightwingers...

And usually vehemently so...

 

[okeydokey]

Milk floats have been around for ages; and dun rather well... with a decent (allbeit local) milage. And as best I know no-one has ever stolen a milk float or parts of it.

Not relevant but Benny Hill and Ernie drove the fastest milk float in the West.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Keep knocking down those strawmen...

I did NOT say all rightwingers are anti EV/antigreen/anti renewables/anti climate change...

But almost all the 'anti's' ARE rightwingers...

And usually vehemently so...

Feel free to keep putting them up.

 

[Dabop]

 

[paulrbarnard]

View attachment 196358

As I quoted you it can hardly be considered a strawman on my part. It was your statement.

 

[Dabop]

As I quoted you it can hardly be considered a strawman on my part. It was your statement.

And your reply was nothing to do with the quote- hence the 'strawman'...

My last post on the matter, as you are the one twisting other peoples arguments (something noted by other people too)

That's not what I was expressing. That's a straw man.

Subject of thread - Daily Mail perpetuating an anti EV world view. Being forced to issue corrections for telling deliberate lies. Uncovered that it was intentional to precipitate anti-EV sentiment. Deliberate agenda.
The point I'm making is that much of the intentional extreme right wing views that are precipitated by the Daily Mail (Simply witness their day to day headlines) are often parroted by individuals. These are easy to detect. Self pigeon holed. And Daily Mail is not alone.

Those parrots - that is the Venn Diagram I'm referring to. Large overlap/correlation of all of the single topics listed earlier.

Seems to be a bit of a habit with you....

 

[mudman]

Data is implicit within the world view. Interconnectedness is everywhere and in everything.

It is no great secret that Tufton Street are engaged in disinformation and misinformation ploys, at the behest of Big Fossil Fuel. It is no secret that Tufton Street is right wing/extreme right wing. It is no secret that Big Business and right wing are very close bed fellows ( =data about business and businessman donations to the right wing of politics are easy to trawl - and conspicuous in their rarity/absence to the left.) It's no secret that the talking points of Daily Mail, Telegraph, GBeebies, TalkCarp, et al read from the same party memos.

World views about disinformation stories - such as "Green energy is more expensive" (now a proven lie); "renewables will harm economy" and "least well off will suffer most" (intentional lies); "climate change is not real" or "global warming is a hoax" or "global warming is not man made" or "there's nothing we can do to combat global warming" etc, etc, etc - those world views are almost exclusively right wing tropes.

World views about "saving the environment", or investing in renewables or anything else that is opposite of the list above exist almost exclusively to the left. We know all this to be true, since we can see the world views play out from each individual and we know what each individual favours as an ideology. Feel free to research all of my posts on this forum and you shall see a pattern. Likewise, have a look at members who never miss an opportunity to criticise or display their fundamental hatred of Starmer or all things "woke" or left wing, and then match that person to their world views about global warming/renewables/zero emissions mandates/EVs and you will also see a very, VERY distinct pattern emerging.

Hence the proposition that: the Venn Diagram of "ANTI-EV" (not just "EVs are not workable around my circumstances, but may suit yours") and right-wing world view is almost a circle.

How about you, mate, whats your view and where do you sit on the world view spectrum? I don't want you particularly to write your answer on here - just that self scrutiny is a valuable commodity that ought to be harnessed more often by more people.

What absolute tosh are you on about now?

I would contend that there are very few 'anti-EV' people. If you are 'anti', then this implies that you would want the production of the 'thing' to be stopped and maybe even go so far as to remove and destroy any of the 'things' that have been produced. Why would anyone want to stop production of EVs completely? It is fair to say that they are a useful thing and can contribute to the reduction of a reliance on fossil fuels. I think what most of those that you perceive as 'anti' are really more questioning the almost religious fervour with which they are being embraced without regard to the practicalities of this. EVs have a place but in a much wider pool of options that should be available, and more resources should be directed into possible alternatives.

You seem to be trying to say that any view that you disagree with is a right-wing viewpoint and I think it is you that should have the period of self scrutiny and ask yourself if you are railing against perfectly valid viewpoints that you are dismissing purely because you can't bring yourself to accept that it may just be a valid viewpoint.

 

[paulrbarnard]

And your reply was nothing to do with the quote- hence the 'strawman'...

My last post on the matter, as you are the one twisting other peoples arguments (something noted by other people too)



Seems to be a bit of a habit with you....

Read it how you like but every comment I posted was a direct reply to what others, notably you and HC, had posted. No miss-understanding or misrepresentation on my part.