One-*** efficacy questions

[Selwyn]

We had a pandemic response plan in the UK and what did we do? Chuck it out and go for Chinese style lockdown.

Even if lockdowns did decrease covid deaths they still wouldn't be worth it - why? Because they increase other deaths as well as we now know. I have a little sympathy for the first lockdown but not the latter ones - pure filthy propaganda on them.

Let us never ever again let Govts use lockdown and tanking peoples livelihoods.

 

[Selwyn]

p.s. the positive rate for India has now plateaued.

And no lockdown. Remarkable eh? Who'd have thunk? Virus' curve all the time, all the bloody time.

 

[RobinBHM]

View attachment 109916

meaningless

that method assures that the average is overwhelmingly included in both groups.

single factor analysis -pretty worthless really

 

[RobinBHM]

p.s. the positive rate for India has now plateaued.

please could you avoid presenting opinion as fact

I heard a senior scientist from India public health saying this afternoon it had not peaked.

 

[RobinBHM]

We had a pandemic response plan in the UK and what did we do? Chuck it out and go for Chinese style lockdown.

Even if lockdowns did decrease covid deaths they still wouldn't be worth it - why? Because they increase other deaths as well as we now know. I have a little sympathy for the first lockdown but not the latter ones - pure filthy propaganda on them.

Let us never ever again let Govts use lockdown and tanking peoples livelihoods.

I am sorry but that is opinion and not backed up by facts, evidence or data -just because you keep saying it to yourself doesn't make it true

I presented you with evidence from a trusted source -do you have any actual evidence that counters it? -I am always interested in a meaningful discussion with data from trusted sources

 

[Selwyn]

please could you avoid presenting opinion as fact

I heard a senior scientist from India public health saying this afternoon it had not peaked.

Lets revisit my comment in a few days. I'm pretty sure the data I'm seeing is saying its plateauing.

- you won't like this Robin. Info from the ZOE app. Infections dropping before lockdown as I said ages ago. I'm sure those two Professors won't have been as thorough as you....

 

[RobinBHM]

View attachment 109916

Do you have a link for this?

I can only find it on twitter

 

[Jonm]

View attachment 109916

I did a quick check of this against total hospitalisations on world of data. Peak date and numbers tie up reasonably. 128k hospitalisations in jan 2021 is 39 per 100k. (Note 1/6/21 is 6 jan 2021). Not sure of the accuracy of the graph Rorschach posted or of it’s relevance, but a quick check shows no glaring errors.

 

[RobinBHM]

I'm pretty sure

Opinion

data I'm seeing

Which you seem reluctant to share

 

[Peterm1000]

We had a pandemic response plan in the UK and what did we do? Chuck it out and go for Chinese style lockdown.

In China they locked people in their houses and let one person per household leave every 2 hours to buy food. Thay was in 2020. Then last month rather than lock a city down, they tested all 9 million inhabitants over the course of 5 days.

In other words, nothing like what happened in the UK in any of our lock downs.

 

[Peterm1000]

Then I suggest you never drive a car. Furthermore what about the risks we have taken with lockdown on all other deaths and livelihoods? Did we look at it? No.

The first lockdown had an element of excusability even if it lacked real thought. The second and third did not. No way.

The exponential growth fantasists are demonstrably that - fantasists. Name a country where the covid growth has been constant and exponential - nowhere

It's not at all comparable to driving a car. Firstly, when driving a car you would be aware if you injured or killed someone. If you have covid without symptoms you can be infecting people with no knowledge at all. Secondly, the relative risk of injuring someone while driving a car must be considerably lower than walking around infected with covid.

 

[D_W]

Do you have a link for this?

I can only find it on twitter

if it's right, it reinforces my initial hassling of everyone that wearing an incapable mask and washing your hands all the time is pointless. Wash your hands after the restroom or after you pick your nose, or after you pick your nose in the restroom, and if you're going to be in a room, brush off the comments from people that N95 masks should be used only by health care workers.

If we could take all of the senseless covid hand washing and allocated it to the people who leave the restroom without washing their hands, then I'd be a happy man (OK, that's not true - I'm permanently wired to be unhappy, but I'll be less unhappy!!).

 

[RobinBHM]

- you won't like this Robin. Info from the ZOE app. Infections dropping before lockdown as I said ages ago. I'm sure those two Professors won't have been as thorough as you.

This isn't new stuff, the arguments that infections were dropping before lockdown is questionable and as Tim Spector said, it's not by any means black and white.

I know you said it ages ago....and Inalso did a breakdown to show the dates don't really prove that's the case.

Once again it's you selectively picking bits to suit your misguided and wrong narrative.


Did you notice at no point in that interview did either of the professors say lockdowns were not necessary?......I wonder why you failed to mention that in your post.

 

[Rorschach]

It's like hitting your head against a brick wall, the evidence that rates were falling before lockdown are right there with two (non nut job) scientists. Yet still the fanatics will not accept that truth that the lockdown wasn't needed. Some of us knew this months ago, I wonder if it's just that they can't accept they were wrong?

 

[Adam W.]

Blimey!

This is a bit like a Brexit thread, I'll leave you all to it.

 

[Selwyn]

Opinion


Which you seem reluctant to share

Not at all - the data is on our worldindata amongst other places

 

[Selwyn]

This isn't new stuff, the arguments that infections were dropping before lockdown is questionable and as Tim Spector said, it's not by any means black and white.

I know you said it ages ago....and Inalso did a breakdown to show the dates don't really prove that's the case.

Once again it's you selectively picking bits to suit your misguided and wrong narrative.


Did you notice at no point in that interview did either of the professors say lockdowns were not necessary?......I wonder why you failed to mention that in your post.

No its not new but I would think Professor Tim Spector knows more than you. Were they asked if lockdowns were not necessary? No. So they didn't answer a question they weren't asked! You are creating a circular argument for yourself.

They put it clear as day that lockdowns 2 and 3 were not necessary, no effective and the data was very clear by then.

 

[Selwyn]

It's like hitting your head against a brick wall, the evidence that rates were falling before lockdown are right there with two (non nut job) scientists. Yet still the fanatics will not accept that truth that the lockdown wasn't needed. Some of us knew this months ago, I wonder if it's just that they can't accept they were wrong?

You cannot change a fanatic. There is only one narrative with them.

When the BBC publishes some stuff the penny might drop.

 

[southendwoodworker]

Since we were told lockdowns were to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed, which was a lie but anyway. ..

This is outright wrong.

My partner works in the NHS, through her I saw what happened first hand. You are simply covid denying now because you didn't see it first hand, and don't trust media or scientists.

 

[Selwyn]

It's not at all comparable to driving a car. Firstly, when driving a car you would be aware if you injured or killed someone. If you have covid without symptoms you can be infecting people with no knowledge at all. Secondly, the relative risk of injuring someone while driving a car must be considerably lower than walking around infected with covid.

Its comparable with the principle of risk. Everywhere there are risks. Risk mitigation is good. Govts locking down economic lifeblood is not risk mitigation as the deaths elsewhere are worse.

Especially as it was clear within 2 weeks that Covid wasn't the black death or ebola. We have not changed from this narrative yet.