oil/Arkansas stones

[Noho12C]

Hello,

Im quite happy with my current sharpening set up, using a (new to me) linisher for the primary bevel and sand paper (aka scary sharp) for honing/polishing, up to 1 micron. Very happy with the results.

However, I'm looking at a solution a bit more durable than sand paper. I dont want to get back to water stones (good results but messy and dont have water in the garage). I had a look at diamond stones, but the finer grits seem to have mixed reviews.

I've heard a bit about Arkansas stones and wanted to have some feedbacks.

Any of you using those ? Looks like the translucent one is the finer, but can it be used straight after 1000 grit ? or is an intermediary grit needed ? What about flatness / flattening ? They seem to be hard wearing but I guess they will need to be flatten at some point..

edit : do those stones work well with "modern" steels ? (eg A2/PMV11)

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Fetch the popcorn ...

 

[Noho12C]

Nooooo, just asking some feedback on Arkansas stones, that's it.
Not asking which sharpening method is the best. That will be for another thread

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[ED65]

Arkansas stones are in many ways obsolete, and not inexpensive if buying new. I initially said they're overpriced but that's wrong, what's a reasonable sum for something that will last beyond your lifetime?

But this is beside the point, they are well north of 1 micron.

I had a look at diamond stones, but the finer grits seem to have mixed reviews.

Good reason for that as there are known consistency issues with some brands.

If you're looking at something like the DMT 8EE, well, let me say there are cheaper ways of getting a good edge! I could buy an entire sharpening setup – grinder included :shock: – for the same money.

is an intermediary grit needed ?

No. You can make massive jumps in grit when honing because honing isn't sanding. Most people don't realise this (on a conscious level) and others argue it's not true, but many traditional two-stone setups already prove this.

 

[Noho12C]

Thanks ED, I was considering at some point the DMT you mentioned. Not too convinced about those..

Classic hand tools has a translucent stone, might give it a try and see how it performs.

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[Cheshirechappie]

One advantage of natural oilstones such as Arkansas is that they're impermeable. That means they don't absorb oil, and consequently don't leak it out again in storage. Use just enough to float off the abraded metal, wipe it off at the end of the day, and the stone will store clean without contaminating anything else. It's also bench-friendly to use, because the amount of oil needed isn't very much.

As for comparative speed and fineness of cut against other sharpening media, 'fraid I'm not the world's greatest expert. I do know that the translucent Arkansas stones were prized as fine finishing stones, were very expensive in the old days, and are sought after on the second-hand market, so they have stood the test of time.

Edit to add - As I understand it, most craftsmen used another stone for their honing, reserving the translucent for fine finishing. The 'intermediate' between grinding and polishing could be something like a Norton India, or a coarser Arkansas.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Nooooo, just asking some feedback on Arkansas stones, that's it.
Not asking which sharpening method is the best. That will be for another thread

When it comes to sharpening, stones etc. it matters little what your initial question was. :lol:

 

[ED65]

Before you go down that path do you want to go through your proposed sharpening routine and get some feedback? As I say, there are cheaper ways of getting edges you can work with.

This isn't just an objection to throwing money at the problem in hopes of a solution; many feel this is a bad idea in general as you've probably read in a few threads, but it's particularly applicable to sharpening if you'll pardon the mild pun. Plus the translucent Arks are showing as being out of stock on Classic Hand Tools anyway :-D

If you already have a metal polish in the house (even Brasso), or anything akin to T-Cut, you can do something right now that would be well worth your time trying. Total workshop time would be minutes, literally, since you'll just be spreading the polish on to a scrap of MDF. So really nothing to lose.

 

[ED65]

When it comes to sharpening, stones etc. it matters little what your initial question was. :lol:

Indeed! We seem to be in one of those rare peaceful periods now though, not sure if a certain party is away on a cycle holiday or summit but my goodness it's lovely!!

 

[lurker]

I get confused about folks referring to sandpaper when discussing scary sharp.
If they really mean sandpaper, I can understand why they have problems

 

[Noho12C]

I get confused about folks referring to sandpaper when discussing scary sharp.
If they really mean sandpaper, I can understand why they have problems

Why, isnt it the same ? Just some very fine sandpaper, no ?

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[Trevanion]

I can’t comment on modern hard steels or ark stones, that’s more D_W’s area of expertise. I’ve been using an India stone ah-la Jacob and a Washita stone in combination with a loaded strop and I’m getting just as good results as any other method I’ve tried.

Indeed! We seem to be in one of those rare peaceful periods now though, not sure if a certain party is away on a cycle holiday or summit but my goodness it's lovely!!

It may be enforced leave judging by how “Morris” was dealt with :lol:.

 

[Noho12C]

ED, at the moment my sharpening method is the following :
Primary bevel up to 1000 grit on the linisher
then secondary bevel on scary sharp on 9, then 3 and finally 1 micron
I tend to touch up chisels and blades after some use on the strop, but find that the planes blades don't get as good on the strop as the chisels. They usually go quickly to the scary sharp.

I'm very happy with the results, just looking at some options to transition away from scary sharp and get a more long term option.



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[thetyreman]

I don't see the need to change your methods if they work? I am a fan of diamond stones then followed by a strop with aluminium oxide compound.

 

[lurker]

I get confused about folks referring to sandpaper when discussing scary sharp.
If they really mean sandpaper, I can understand why they have problems

Why, isnt it the same ? Just some very fine sandpaper, no ?

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Sorry!
Badly worded.

Start again:
I Assume you are using silicon carbide waterproof (aka wet and dry).
If yes, I stick this to some mrmdf scrap with spray mount (simply because I have a can).
Then I rip the ( a4) board into 5 inch wide strips.
I then use these as you would a sharpening stone.
I used to use different grades but then realised 180 deteriorated into what was essentially a finer grade.
Used with autosol on the other side of one of the boards, I have enough sharpening capacity to keep all my blades in good nick for nearly a year.

Note, I do have some lovely old stones and a couple of nice diamond plates but rarely use then.

 

[ED65]

It may be enforced leave judging by how “Morris” was dealt with :lol:.

I was wondering – dare I say hoping? – that was the case but I missed that thread entirely.

That and I finally took advice that I got via PM years ago (from two members) and don't see Jacob's posts any more :mrgreen:

 

[ED65]

ED, at the moment my sharpening method is the following :
Primary bevel up to 1000 grit on the linisher
then secondary bevel on scary sharp on 9, then 3 and finally 1 micron
I tend to touch up chisels and blades after some use on the strop, but find that the planes blades don't get as good on the strop as the chisels. They usually go quickly to the scary sharp.

Right so <rubs hands together> if you're doing primary/secondary sharpening you can save yourself some time and stop doing that much at the first stage as the quality of the primary bevel is irrelevant to the final edge, and the speed with which it can be achieved. So the primary can be (and frequently is) just roughly ground on a 120 or 180 wheel, but it could just as easily be an 80!

I'm very happy with the results, just looking at some options to transition away from scary sharp and get a more long term option.

Well you can achieve workable edges (for some purposes) directly from 1,000 grit. For anything you need to be keener you can strop straight after that and achieve an edge that will easily shave arm hair, or more relevantly, pare pine end grain.

If you would prefer a stone as a finisher (or part of finishing, with very minimal stropping e.g. on bare leather to follow) a slate hone is an option worth considering. I suspect, don't know, that slate won't handle A2 in a way that you'd like but they do work nicely for simpler steels. If you haunt car boots and Gumtree for a bit you might be able to pick one up for pocket change, but buying an Inigo Jones new won't break the bank either and you get to support a British concern.

 

[Trevanion]

I was wondering – dare I say hoping?

As unfortunate as it is to say, I know since the banning (Well, I assume he's been banned although there's been no confirmation) there's been three or four threads that have covered fairly controversial topics both about woodworking and some about life in general and they've been so clean it's unbelievable. The EV thread, for example, has garnered 24 pages now and I don't think I've seen a single ill-willed comment and it's been an open discussion rather than an all-out argument as they always used to end up.

Even this thread would've become another one of "those" threads by now if you get what I mean, one of the ones with the padlock next to the thread header :lol:. Again, as unfortunate as it is to say, I hope it's on a permanent basis now. I can rattle off a few examples of shocking and childish behaviour in the last few months, let alone what everyone has put up with for the last decade and a half or so on a few different forums including this one.

Back to the actual topic, if you're very observant you can sometimes spot a bargain on eBay where some people might not notice a decent stone under the surface gunge. I suppose with the ark stones you could always buy one to try without breaking the bank then you could sell it on pretty easily and not make too much of a loss if you don't get along with it, the same goes pretty much for any of the arks, washitas, Charnley Forests, etc... as there seems to be a resurgence in people picking up natural stones over synthetics/diamonds.

As ED65 said, a slate hone might be a good option. A member here made one not to long ago from a piece he found in the wild and was surprised with the results.

 

[deema]

I use Arkansas stones. I have the soft, hard and black stones that I use every time I sharpen. The black stone is fine enough for anything, I believe they were used to sharpen surgeons scalpels, so should be good enough for wood butchery.

I’ve had the black stone for about 10 years and it’s never gone out of flat. I refresh the surface very now and again with a very fine diamond stone, as a I do with my other stones.

I bought the 10” by 3” stones, but would have been happy with 8” by 2”.

They don’t create mess, simple to use, stay flat and I get a great result.

 

[Noho12C]

Thanks ED, Trevanion and Deema for your inputs.

I've seen some slates on a old tools website. Never heard of it before, tools like an Arkansas stone from well. Might give it a try, as quite cheap.



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